People here mention the deleted scene at the end where Holmes and Watson show up late. I remember seeing this one time when the movie was shown on TV twenty or more years ago but can someone remind me what Sherlock says? I seem to recall they got lost and have to ask one of the departing guests for directions to the house. Hopefully this will be included in the deleted scenes on a DVD. Anyone know when the DVD might come out?
thanks
The DVD is available on the internet at places like Amazon.com. I haven't seen it in a store for a long time although a specialty DVD store might have it. Amazon probably has is for $14-18. I picked it up from them last year. There are no extras on the disc. The picture is a decent transfer considering how old the picture is and that it isn't a well known film.
shareThe legendary Sherlock scenes are NOT on the DVD -- Sherlock actually appears at the end after the characters leave the castle. Number One Son asks his father if they should let Holmes and Watson know what happened and his father snaps no.
The reason for the permanent deletion has to do with copyrights -- apparently permission was not obtained to use the image of Holmes and Watson and so the scene has moved into legend...
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The reason for the permanent deletion has to do with copyrights -- apparently permission was not obtained to use the image of Holmes and Watson and so the scene has moved into legend...
I find this curious. The Holmes stories are well over 100 years old; I would think they would have fallen into public domain by this time. But maybe not, copyright laws being very confusing. Yet, even if it is true, I would think the use of the characters' images, used fleetingly and clearly for satirical purposes, would fall under the area of fair use. And since all the other characters are parodies of famous characters, obviously still under copyright protection, I would think it would be obvious that it isn't the "real" Holmes and Watson, but parodies as well.
The story I got was different. The images of Holmes and Watson are in the public domain. What the Conan Doyle estate has is the rights to a few of the later Holmes stories.
The reason I read some time back (in a book about the Sherlock Holmes films) was that the Holmes/Watson scene was cut out because the egos of the other stars would not allow themselves and their characters to be overshadowed by the more famous personages.
At the time the film was released to network television, it also aired on HBO, but the theatrical version did not include the Holmes/Watson scene, so I marked where the scene comes into the film, stopped the taping of the HBO showing and duped in the Holmes/Watson scene from the network showing. Later, I waited until HBO ran it again and picked up the taping from that point until the end credits. I love Sherlock Holmes and detective stories and films that much.
But please don;t ask me to make a copy available. I have SO many VHS tapes, and it would be a real job to find this particualr tape. I'm sorry.
The scenes are in a post by me below on this board. They are up on YouTube.
sharePlus the characters are not mentioned by name. The version I heard was that Simon and Moore decided after the scene was in the film that Holmes and Watson were too anachronistic (the other characters being parodies of 1930s-40s detectives), and that the scene didn't really add much to the film. Apparently, it was in the initial theatrical release, but when it went into wider release, the scene was already removed. It reappeared in initial television broadcasts, but has since disappeared again.
The copyright status is tricky, but at the time the film was produced, the characters were not in the public domain. Copyright status in the US won't expire until 2016 at the earliest; it expired in Canada in 1980 and the UK in 2000. The stories being "well over 100 years old" means nothing. Copyright extends 50 to 100 years (depending on circumstances) from the death of the author, not the publication date of the individual works. Conan Doyle died in 1930. The stories were published between 1887 and 1917, so none of them were "well over 100 years old" in 1976, when the film was released.
The reason for the permanent deletion has to do with copyrights -- apparently permission was not obtained to use the image of Holmes and Watson and so the scene has moved into legend.
The version I heard was that Simon and Moore decided after the scene was in the film that Holmes and Watson were too anachronistic (the other characters being parodies of 1930s-40s detectives), and that the scene didn't really add much to the film.
The reason I read some time back (in a book about the Sherlock Holmes films) was that the Holmes/Watson scene was cut out because the egos of the other stars would not allow themselves and their characters to be overshadowed by the more famous personages.
Public domain? Are you crazy. Sherlock Holmes is on the top 5 list every year for income amongst fictional characters. The Sir Author Conan Doyle descendants still own the rights. I believe it is actually a permanent trust, if I remember correctly. Too bad they weren't willing to pay the royalties necessary to use Holmes and Watson-I would have loved to have seen that!!
sharePublic domain? Are you crazy. Sherlock Holmes is on the top 5 list every year for income amongst fictional characters. The Sir Author Conan Doyle descendants still own the rights. I believe it is actually a permanent trust, if I remember correctly. Too bad they weren't willing to pay the royalties necessary to use Holmes and Watson-I would have loved to have seen that!!
Sherlock Holmes and all characters pertaining to Sir Arthur Conan Doyles works have never been copyrighted. Doyle, who did not want to continue with the character after the death of Sherlock and Moriarty , gave permission to everyone full access to the characters. The omission of the characters at the end of the movie must be linked to some project containing the characters in a non-comidic way. I believe "Sherlock in New York" and "The Seven Percent Solution" came out around the same time as the omission. At least they got their own comedies, "Without a Clue" and "Sherlocks Smarter Brother". We still got the last laugh.
shareI can't remember what Wang's son says (something like "Pop, shouldn't we tell them it's all a hoax?") but as I remember it Wang's response was something like "Let fools find out for selves. Drive, please."
shareAs I recall, when Wang's son asks his father whether they should have told Holmes and Watson they were too late, Wang says something like, "If he world's greatest detective, let him figure it out."
shareWhen I saw the film in the theatre there was no Sherlock scene at the end, but there was a scene that was cut from the video/DVD release for some reason: It showed Jessica Withers and her nurser in an old-fashioned London taxi, pulling up to the Twain house. They had clearly taken the cab from London to the US, with gags about the fare and the difficulty in crossing the Atlantic. Anyone else remember it? Anyone know why it was deleted?
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Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?
The cab driver was played by Peter Sellers, doing one of his infamous impressions. It was deleted because it was too confusing for viewers to see Peter Sellers in 2 roles in the movie. The script has several deleted scenes, which I listed on here before... such as confrontation between Jessica Marbles (Elsa Lanchester) and Dora Charleston (Maggie Smith) about how murder is "never exciting" or words to that affect. There is also the scene missing where the adopted son finds another note in Lionel Twain's hand, and missing dialogue in the dining room scene between several of the characters, probably cut due to time contraints. Everything in the script was shot, so it would be very exciting if someone ever picked all these deleted scenes off the cutting room floor and put them into a special edition DVD. The script also explains the ending, if anyone is curious I would gladly tell them what the ending is supposed to suggest.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
If you hadnt already tried to figure it out for yourself, the maid is in fact Lionel's daughter Rita/Irene. You will take note that neither the maid, nor Lionel Twain, are ever in the same room at the same time because he would be able to tell it was his daughter immediately. The ending was filmed several times, with different actresses playing the daughter, however it proved too confusing and they stuck with Nancy Walker.
I don't think that this explains much. If there is a Lionel Twain an a "undercover Rita" why does Twain know when and that he will be killed? And why does he let somebody kill him?
And when it really was Rita why don't get Perrier the money? Or is it so because his theory says that she had killed several other people but she have not done this?
So i think this spoiler doesn't explain anything really.
I don't think celeb_sleuth meant that there were two seperate Twains. What I believe may have happened is that Rita staged Lionels death. Maybe that wasn't really Twain (fake plastic body) or something. I don't know. Maybe we weren't meant to know. Just one of those unsolved questions that we have to live with.
share
>> It was deleted because it was too confusing for viewers
>> to see Peter Sellers in 2 roles in the movie.
Good Lord, no. Peter Sellers often played multiple roles:
The Mouse That Roared (1959) - Grand Duchess Gloriana XII/Prime Minister Count Rupert Mountjoy/Tully Bascombe
Dr. Strangelove (1964) - Group Captain Lionel Mandrake/President Merkin Muffley/Dr. Strangelove
The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu (1980) - Dennis Nayland Smith/Dr. Fu('Fred') Manchu
With all the convolutions in this plot, Neil Simon would not have been put off by casting Peter Sellers in a second dissimilar bit role for its being too confusing.
MadKaugh
"It was deleted because it was too confusing for viewers to see Peter Sellers in 2 roles in the movie. "
Oh, come on. That can't be a reason. Have you seen any Austin Powers movies? Try to count how many roles Mike Myers is in, without audience getting confused. By that, at least. Furthermore, I have seen many movies where the same guy plays different roles, and those movies have never confused the audience. With that, at least..
Yes she is Twain's daughter. Also if you remember at the beginning it was explained that she hated her father, and at the end it was stated that Twain died 5 years ago. She took his place to confuse us..IT is a great movie that deserves to be watched many times over. The one that gets me is that at the end she laughs in a man's voice????
shareThere is an additional seen with Sam Diamonds companion almost getting hit by the Charlestons as she's walking back from getting gasoline. I seem to recall her saying "Thank God you came along I've been walking for miles." Instead of offering a lift Charleston says something like "Well, keep to the side of the road." and drives off. I think Eileen Brennans scream is what I remember the most from that seen. I wish the DVD had the extra scenese put back in.
shareConsidering when the DVD came out we'll only be getting the version with the Mini-Conversation with Neil Simon.
That is unless the company thinks they can make some more money releasing the movie again with deleted scenes and maybe a commentary or interviews with the remaining (living) actors.
Letter writing campaigns have worked in the past...
i wish the DVD even had hte scenes as extras... from what i've read, most of it sounds pretty funny... i'd love to see Holmes' cameo and Sellers as the cabbie, for sure!
shareWhen I was a child, I would constantly rent this movie from the library near my house. The VHS the library rented out had both the "Miss. Skeffington meets the Charlestons" scene (with a line or two when they meet again at the castle) and the Sherlock and Watson ending. So, if anyone has interest in hunting down a first edition VHS of the film, you will be able to view these two (and a half) scenes. Years ago, the library started selling their VHS tapes, when I inquired about buying "Murder by Death" I found out that someone returned it with the taped snapped so they threw it away. I was slightly heart broken. Someone on this message board mentioned that they saw the scene on television, which is also true because a friend of mine had a VHS copy from a television broadcast that had the Sherlock scene. Incidently this is the same friend that has a VHS copy of the original Disney Channel broadcast of "The Goonies" that has the octopus, convience store, and about four or five other deleted scenes in it. Lucky bum.
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Get the damn screwdriver OUT OF MY HEAD!!
wow! thanks for the tip! i'll definitely be on the lookout for that now!
shareI watched this movie just about every time it appeared on HBO back in the late 70's. (I was around 10 or 11 at the time.) I recall the missing scenes mentioned here. They probably got trimmed due to commercial TV time constraints more than anything else. (Star Trek reruns cut scenes to make more room for commercial ads.)
For example, BBC America just ran "MBD" this past Sunday as part of a salute to Peter Sellers. They cut off the real credits and instead reprinted them along the side of the screen while showing scenes from other upcoming shows. It would have been nice if they tacked on the Holmes and Watson gag after, but they didn't, even though Sellers was in it!
None of the missing scenes do much to advance the plot in any way, nor is this movie considered a "classic", though I think it ought to be! On the other hand, it's NOT like cutting out the Holmes and Watson gag could be compared to, say, deleting "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn", "What we got here is, failure to communicate", or the whole "I coulda been a contender!" speech.
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And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
I really hate that trick of reducing and speeding up the credits so they can add more self promotion. I don't know which networks do or if maybe they all do it, but IMHO it's reprehensible. Seems like a complete lawyerly scam to technically live up to whatever contract they have with the content providers while completely destroying any usefulness of the credits. Really it's the same as not running them, but no doubt they're contractually obligated to. I actually CARE occasionally who an actor or actress was or who wrote the music or whatever.
shareI never took it that Sherlock was later but rather Sherlock was the first of five more detectives invited for the next show.
sharewonder if the deleted scenes ever been put back maybe in 2016 when the movie turns 40 ..one my favorite peter sellers did after the panther series and the party..i am sure neil simon and the director have them extra bits i am lucky to have taped from tv years ago and has the part still at the end..but i mostly watch dvds now so hopefully sooner then later.
shareI know this post is very old but just in case others are interested the Sherlock scene from the film is up on YouTube and can be viewed here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vAwH2VEyeg
We're not playing Yellow Car.--Martin
You're always playing Yellow Car.--Arthur