I've loved "Logan's Run" since I first saw it on TCM as a kid. :) One of the things I find interesting is the fact that homosexuality is accepted as normal in the "Logan's Run" film. Being gay myself, that makes the movie even better in my opinion. :)
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Likewise. You are blocked. ;)
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Until your comment I had forgotten that. And it was such a "non-event" in the movie, just a part of the story. Which is in itself wonderful. Not to mention it got past the censors of the day, and was not even commented on in the 3-monologue commentary.
shareWhat censors? There were censors in the '70s? The Hays Code lasted from 1930 - 1968 and Logan's Run was released in 1976. Which is why we had nipples everywhere and Logan telling the girl that whatever she is into, it is fine.
shareSo the 70's *were* the good old days! :)
shareYes! The '70s were much more liberal and available in some areas (ie big cities like LA, NY and SF).
It was a lot simpler and easier to connect with others.
One of my favorite lines from Point Break (1991) was Gary Busey/Pappas's observation about LA changing from the '70s ~ "the air got dirty and the sex got clean."
shareYeah, there were censors, the MPAA. The practice censorship via the arbitrary assignment of ratings which limit the size of the movie's audience and influence theaters when they book movies. Suggestion of elements like homosexuality were often enough to get you an R, so there goes your teenage crowd, which was a prime target for a movie like this.
The MPAA is far worse than the Hayes Code ever was. At least there, things were pretty well spelled out. The MPAA is notorious for telling filmmakers they have to make cuts to get a desired rating, but won't provide specific information as to what is objectionable. The documentary This Movie Is Not Yet Rated exposes it for the lie that it is.
"Fortunately, Ah keep mah feathers numbered for just such an emergency!"
The nature of the relationship between Logan and Francis, has been much discussed in this forum, and elsewhere.
shareI suppose you could read it one of two ways; 1.) It shows an acceptance of homosexuality, as the OP sees it. 2.) Since the culture of Logan's Run is one of hedonism and excess, it could be lumping homosexual behavior into the category of debauchery.
I'm not saying this to be hateful, but it's interesting how often two people (or groups of people) can look at the same thing and see something different. I like it when things like this aren't explicit and are left open for interpretation. Who wants to be beaten over the head with ideas? You don't think that way. You just take your lumps and move on.
'Cause there's thunder in your heart. Every move is like lightning!
**WARNING: MY POSTS MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS**
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I suppose you could read it one of two ways; 1.) It shows an acceptance of homosexuality, as the OP sees it. 2.) Since the culture of Logan's Run is one of hedonism and excess, it could be lumping homosexual behavior into the category of debauchery.
Nope. These people were tightly controlled including their reproduction. There's no suggestion that women were getting pregnant accidentally and homosexuality was used to moderate population. It was Last Day that controlled the population and babies were brought up in Nursery.
This concept is stolen from Brave New World and modified. The state controls all. I can't remember what the book says but no doubt contraceptives were in the water and nothing was left to chance.
The practice censorship via the arbitrary assignment of ratings which limit the size of the movie's audience and influence theaters when they book movies. Suggestion of elements like homosexuality were often enough to get you an R, so there goes your teenage crowd, which was a prime target for a movie like this.
My experience in the very early 80's was the same. They never checked my age for an R--even when I was young enough that I had to ride my bike to the theater.
shareThere has always been movie censorship. The Hayes Code was just one period of censorship in the USA.
shareIn the U.S. the Hays Office was succeeded by the MPAA Office. For a long time, they were (in)famous for putting more restrictive ratings on scenes with any gay action than on similar scenes between a straight couple. (A single kiss between two men was almost sure to get a movie an "R" rating.)
Find the documentary "This Film Is Not Yet Rated" (2006)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/combined
It outlines the unequal treatment of that era. Including the "Drumhead Court Martial" tone of their "appeal process".
Perhaps that bit "slipped past" because it didn't go anywhere, they didn't even speak to each other.
"Love looks not with the eye but with the mind;
Therefore is wingéd Cupid painted blind."
— A Midsummer Night's Dream, Act I
Must be the mid-70's or maybe just the British
In The Man Who Would Be King, Ootah offers Daniel and Peachy any of his daughters, and after they refuse (they swore off women for a bit), he offers them any of his sons.
It was a hedonistic society that accepted all types of sexual behavior. I don't think Logan 5 was Homosexual. As he rejected the guy that came through the circuit before Jessica 6. More than likely, he and Frances would get involved in orgies. The relationship between the two were more of a "bromance".
I am the Alpha and the Omoxus. The Omoxus and the Omega
Now when i think about it. He might have been rejecting him, not because he didn't have sex with men, maybe THAT man wasn't his type.
I am the Alpha and the Omoxus. The Omoxus and the Omega
So they would rub balls every once in a while while DP ing a hot chick ... doesn't make them gay ...makes them hetero flexible
God Damn! We just had a near-life experience, fellas.
Certainly, the City culture of Logan's Run does accept it as normal. But whether the film itself accepts it as normal is debatable.
In the film, sex was just sex. It had no moral value, positive or negative (nothing in the City had any moral value, positive or negative). It was simply an action undertaken by willing parties. Clearly people might have preferences (we see both Logan and Jessica rejecting same-gender partners but not having any stigma about the possibilities), but those preferences were not connected to identities the way we think of them today. That is, a guy preferring other guys is not 'gay', because there is no such identity in the world of the City, but he would be just a guy who prefers guys.
I am ambivalent about how the movie depicts it... is it using the openness around same-gender sex as a positive depiction of the openness of the sexual revolution of the 1970s? I really find it wonderful to see the ease with which they talk about it. On the other hand, in the end the movie reinforces traditional heterosexual, monogamous, for-the-purpose-of-procreation partnerships, so in that light, same-gender sex would be seen as an example of the decadence of the City, suggesting that the film might ultimately reject same-gender sex.
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I get what you're saying here- but for some reason it felt to me like it was just a non issue. It didn't matter if you preferred men or women just because... It didn't.
Although as someone else said, Logan and Jessica did seem to represent 'the norm' at the end. And Francis could be seen as being 'sick' and 'obsessive' in his live for Logan.calthough at the same time they seemed to have a great relationship in the beginning!
Hmmmmm
.... Not sure now!!! ?
I see it differently. Yes, the film did accept homosexuality as a non-issue.
What it was showing was that there was no outlet for LOVE. This society did not allow people to build relationships, to create lives together. And if they did attempt to do so, I'm sure the computer would have found ways to break it up.
The reason why Francis went insane was because he had no outlet for the feelings he had for Logan. He wasn't allowed to have a life with him. So he took what he could get.
But when he saw Logan fall immediately in love with Jessica, Francis realized what he was missing. And that is part of the reason he was so angry and hurt.
Could Logan have fallen in love with Francis? Probably. He certainly doesn't turn his nose away from male affairs or his hook up machine would reject male candidates immediately and only let women through the channel. But it just happened that he fell in love with Jessica.
Yes, the film did accept homosexuality as a non-issue.or at least gay sex for recreation.
But when he saw Logan fall immediately in love with Jessica, Francis realized what he was missing.says who?
or his hook up machine would reject male candidates immediatelysays who?
Says who?
The film.
Francis was acting way too intensely over a friend who meets a new woman. Wouldn't you think? Especially in the last scenes, where he is complaining that Jessica changed him.
The Circuit
If Logan didn't have flings with men or didn't want them, he could easily program the machine not to show available men. In turn the men on the circuit could request only female partners. What would be the point of the machine if it didn't allow choice?
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"Francis was acting way too intensely over a friend who meets a new woman. Wouldn't you think? Especially in the last scenes, where he is complaining that Jessica changed him."
Oh, now, Francis was reacting to Jessica as a runner, not as a sexual competitor. He was an agent of the state indoctrinated to hate her kind as a threat to the state.
"If Logan didn't have flings with men or didn't want them, he could easily program the machine not to show available men."
That is true but it was a simple plot device to show that homosexuality was no big deal. If not for that how would we have seen it? Men kissing? Not in 1976. Less contentious to have Logan reject a man which is like having it both ways. You get to see a juicy aspect while maintaining Logan's hetero credentials.
I have to disagree with you, kaskait.
I think this had far less to do with sexuality than it did with 'religion' and/or 'civic devotion to the state'.
I feel Francis's attitude was analogous to when fervent religious devotee sees a someone he thought of as a similar devotee 'fall from grace' and abandon the religion. The outrage and hatred is greater than they appear to have for the person that never believed, because this person KNEW the 'TRUTH' and threw it away.
Francis believed that their way of life was THE way; the ONLY way. Logan was not following that way. Francis NEEDS everyone to believe as he does. If enough people don't, then the system falls apart and Francis is left with nothing. Runners create a panic deep in Francis's mind, even if he doesn't recognize it.
Francis's last words weren't, "Logan,.....I....love you. erg."
They were, "Logan!.....You renewed! erg." (when he looked at Logan's clear crystal)
Francis was still seeing things from a 'religious' view. He thought Logan was 'saved'.
That's a very good answer.
Free sex is treated as a given in LR. The book is the source material and the 70s, post 60s culture, portrayed it in an relaxed and quite inconsequential manner. I think if the movie was made now it would be, ironically, more to the fore, which is kinda sad when you think about it.
Ask yourself what our world will be like in a few decades time. Hopefully nobody will give a *beep* but you'll still have a preference and just because you accept someone's right to be bisexual you'll still find most people will be heterosexual as a function of pure biology.
Hey, whatever does it for you, but I don't recall any gay characters ... the guy on the sex circuit? I can't remember.
shareI got an ancient Rome vibe prolly from the togas. Some of the rich dudes would just get drunk and throw a f/ck in whoever they wanted so I agree it was meant to be hedonistic (and we know what happened to Rome for a variety of reasons). Seeing how the opening scene is a nursery and how Logan was all like "Hell Naw!" when he saw the gay dude on the circuit I'm guessing hetrosexuals are still the majority.
shareI don't recall any gay characters ... the guy on the sex circuit?
There was a sequel to this called "Logan's Fun" and it was much more homerotic. Unfortunately it devolved into a soft porn though.
shareWith the continual dumbing down of our society, I continuously note how we over complicate things - maybe because we are paradoxically dumbing them down at the same rate and need some kinda of outlet?
After reading most of what is left of this thread, I weep for society.
Logan and Francis were not gay. Before this whole homosexuality media uprising we are living in, they were simply known as "Best Friends". Usually that involves LOVE in a platonic level. Remember the word "Platonic"? Seems like no one does any more and runs off making up 30 new labels. There was not ONE INCIDENT inside the film universe that remotely suggested they had any male sex. HomoSEXUALITY is >>ONLY<< about sex, nothing else. If you are not sticking it in, you are not gay. Thinking about it doesn't make you gay, dressing different doesn't, any more than THINKING about murdering makes you a murderer, or WISHING you were a singer makes you sing great. Logan and Francis were FRIENDS. That meant something back in 1976 when this was made. It doesn't mean the term friends means a "Bromance" or even gay. It's called FRIENDS. Another term lost to the devolution of society, I suppose.
Logan switched channels from a guy on "The Circuit". Maybe he just dialed the wrong channel? How hard is that to surmise????
The only GAY reference I see in this movie is when Logan asks Jessica "Or, do you prefer women?" That was it.
Why are we looking for and inserting gayness into everything that has NOTHING to do with it?
PERSONALLY, I don't care AT ALL what sexual things ANYONE does in their privacy, but I'm tired of SEEING it, and I don't go around publicising MY personal sexuality. I guess I should now, huh? The current trend and all. :)