MovieChat Forums > Helter Skelter (1976) Discussion > I don't believe the "Helter Skelter" rac...

I don't believe the "Helter Skelter" race war motive.

posted 4 years ago by Eric56 (4580)
14 replies | jump to latest

It's BS. Either the murders were a drug deal gone bad. One of the killers probably knew the victims likely Frykowski or Folger since both were heavily into drugs.

Or the other plausible motive is to do a copycat murder so the police wouldn't focus on Manson member, Robert Beausoleil , who was arrested for the prior murder of Gary Hinman just weeks prior. I believe Susan Atkins mentioned this in her book as to why the murders happened. Both the Tate/Labianca murders and Hinman murder had the victim's blood written on the walls.

Charles Manson already knew Terry Melcher didn't live there. He probably picked that house because Tex Watson already knew the layout. Plus, prominent people lived there and it was secluded. It was a symbol of Manson's rejection from Hollywood and to instill fear into Terry Melcher.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I hate to say it, but the karma is turning, and it's Blackie's turn to be on top.

[–] ebhaynz (3688) 4 years ago

It certainly was Charlie directing his handpicked drug addled groupies to commit the murders..nearby ranchers did hear them yell out "time to go kill some pigs" that fateful night. When Susan Atkins started yapping in jail she said Charlie was Jesus Christ and that they were all going to live in a bottomless pit out in the desert while the race war went on. She also admitted they went to the Cielo house because it was in a quiet, secluded area and Charlie told Tex to "kill everyone in the house". The murders happened because Charlie Manson was a psychopathic cult leader who effectively brainwashed his members. Some of them really did believe his crazy race war rants.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

So let me get this straight. You have decided to ignore court room testimony tha tthe jury that sat through the entire trial believed and instead embrace the ramblings of a convicted murderer that wrote a book to try and make money off the crime she committed. Wow. You've really managed to prove your ignorance with this logic.

[–] lemonhead1 (424) 4 years ago

Actually, the HS motive was, indeed true. Lynette Fromme, who was Manson's true sidekick said it in her book in a very subtle way. She called it "The Revolution." Gary was murdered because they wanted his money, then the whole thing blew up. Copycat my ass!

[–] LockardTheGOAT (342) 4 years ago

Plenty of people at the ranch said the Helter Skelter thing was a myth. Even Susan Atkins said in her book that she was always under the impression that freeing Bobby from jail was the motive for the murders

[–] bop101 (148) 4 years ago

I haven't seen anything proving Manson knew Melcher didn't still live there. Isn't it strange the names Wilson and Melcher never came up at all? Not for decades later.

Let's say your right, wouldn't Melcher have be scared shitless seeing the news the next day about what happened in his old house? Yet there nothing I've ever heard of him calling the cop and screaming MANSON! Why, his mom Doris Day was a massive star at the time. Doesn't make any sense. In the book Heroes And Villains: The True Story Of The Beach Boys ... It's told Melcher had pulled out of record deal Wilson had put together between Melcher and Mason. The Beach Boys recorded one of his songs. Mason was no stranger to them and was pissed about the record deal. His way of getting back.

There was also no reason for him to tell any of them why or who they were going to kill. They were good robots.

[–] Redsfan001 (6144) 4 years ago

That is what I thought.

Manson was a hanger on to the Beach Boys, a wantabe singer songwriter and was rejected by them and uncredited for lyrics in a song.

His low social status is a good motivator, and blaming someone for his lowly condition is strong fuel.

[–] funkychicken (613) 4 years ago

There's no doubt Dennis Wilson and Terry Melcher played a significant part in triggering the whole affair.

Manson was particularly upset about them changing some words. "cease to exist" became "cease to resist". It may seem like a small change but Manson was VERY not cool with it. He also felt they tricked him out of rights to the song with papers / contracts etc. And never delivered on promises they made to him. To be fair, they may have tried but Manson could not take any any criticism or direction in the studio without getting very upset and defensive, so basically he was too hard to work with and they could not get anywhere in multiple attempts in the studio and they bailed on him. After a fight with Dennis where Manson got pretty scary / threatening Dennis vacated his own home moved and ghosted Manson.

Here is the song "Never Learn Not to Love"
https://youtu.be/JacmCO7GDR4

[–] Redsfan001 (6144) 4 years ago

Interesting info!

Yeah I can see where Charlie Manson would be hard to work with🙂.

[–] bop101 (148) 4 years ago

Only one, almost true item in "Once upon a time in Hollywood" was the hitchhike scene. Only it wasn't a washed up stuntman. It was Dennis Wilson who picked up the Manson girls hitchhiking. He took them to Spahn Ranch and dove right into the family. He was a major pussy hound.

There was a time he had Mason and the clan living at this house. From the book, he ended up selling the house to get rid of them.

[–] LockardTheGOAT (342) 4 years ago

He WAS scared shitless. Vincent Bugliosi (prosecutor) had to put his mind at ease by telling him Manson had already been there months earlier and knew by then that Terry no longer lived there, and that the murders had nothing to with him.

[–] bop101 (148) 4 years ago

How did Bugliosi know that the day after the murder or months later? If this took part as you say, why wasn't Manson pickup ASAP? Gee, DORIS DAY'S son thinks some guy may have murdered a bunch of people the other day where her son used to live. His name is Mason! Naaaa, couldn't be him!

Having a hard time believing this.

[–] LockardTheGOAT (342) 4 years ago

lol Obviously it happened several months later as the trial proceeded, not right away

[–] bop101 (148) 4 years ago

Why, he was scared shitless of Mason yes? Did he hide under his bed or didn't think the five that died that night could have been a message address to him? If Akins hadn't shot her mouth about the killing in jail, Mason may have skated. Terry, faced with 5 dead people, did nothing.