Due to and apparent motive that Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi says Manson ordered the murders for, Helter Skelter, came from The Beatles White Album....Did The Beatles or their management ever reply on the music theories Charlie claimed he was discovered/recieved messages from that album.
Or did they not respond, as similar that Jodie Foster not reply to John Hinkley Jr's claim was motive his shooting Reagan.
John made some comments about his songs having nothing to do with offing people. I know I have the quote someplace, but I can't find it right now.
Ringo later spoke about it in the Anthology.
John once told someone close to the case "Tell him Helter Skelter was Paul's song" which sounds very Lennonesque.
shareThe Beatles had broken up by the time Manson went to trial and the prosecuter brought out all the White Album evidence. There was never an official statement from them, or an interview where they discussed the situation in depth. If anything, as mentioned above, when asked about it they gave very quick answers and expressed sympathy for the victims. Really, when you think about it, what could they really have said?
share[deleted]
John referred to Manson as he did others, the lunatics who read far into their lyrics looking for hidden messages, which were never there in the first place
think of that guy in Imagine who was wondering around John's garden for days.
John goes out to talk to him and the guy is talking about how he thought John was singing specific things to him, and the meaning of an obscure song like Dig A Pony
but he did read Manson's interview in Society's Child and he concurred that a lot of what Manson says is true, as far as taking in the kids that nobody wanted, giving them some sort of self worth
also of Charlie talking about growing up in state institutions, having no real parents, of being stretched between a grandmother who wouldnt let you cuss and made you go to church every Sunday and a mother who partied all night and didnt care what he did
I love the line someone attributed to John "Tell him it was Pauls song"
lol - that IS John
===
Best Movie of 20009/10: INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS & WORLD'S GREATEST DAD
I remember all of the Anti-rock music religious zealots who were speaking out in the early 1980s (the Peters Bros etc.) loved to say Manson thought the Beatles were telling him to kill etc. so they could spread negativity about rock music but what those same people never told you was the fact that Manson also got many of his twisted beliefs from the bible, especially the book of revelation.
shareBetween the murders and the surfacing of the "Helter Skelter" theory, there was the great "Paul is dead" rumor of late 1969. There were supposedly all sorts of clues in the music that Paul had been killed in a traffic accident and replaced with a double. (Shortly before that story broke, I heard an alternative version that the clues were really that the Beatles had connived in the death of their manager Brian Epstein.) By the time the Manson connection was revealed, I suspect the boys were thoroughly sick of "clues" and "secret messages."
http://redkincaid.com
First off, no offense, but "response" is spelled this way. I don't think the Beatles made any official statement, but I did hear snippets from them indicating that they thought the Manson family were lunatics and that the Beatles' lyrics were not directed to anyone and certainly were not meant to inspire anyone to commit murder.
shareSomewhat coincidental, but Vincent Bugliosi refers in the book to an interview with Paul McCartney which was published at about the time the verdicts in the case were announced in real life. In the interview, McCartney said that it had become obvious during the making of the White Album that the Beatles' personal and musical differences were irreconcilable.
share[deleted]
I read all the replies on this post, but lots of information seems to be missing here on the case of the Beatles lyrics and Manson's interpretation of those. Nobody talked about the song "Blackbird" from the white album, it was also parts of this song that made Manson thinking that the black people would dominate over the white in a close future "Blackbird singing in the dead of night, Take these broken wings and learn to fly, All your life, You were only waiting for this moment to arise, Blackbird singing in the dead of night, Take these sunken eyes and learn to see, All your life, You were only waiting for this moment to be free". The word "Rise" was written in blood. Also "Revolution 1 and Revolution 9" if you think about the bible's "Book of Revelation" it means the end of days. And "Piggies" meant to Manson the rich people, the high class of Hollywood, those he hated the most (in part cause he has failed to be a great singer and actor). The word "Pigs" was written also in blood on the front door of the house of Roman Polanski after the massacre.
Well I could write about this for a long time having read all the good books about this case, but I will suggest you to read Helter Skelter first, also here is a link about the songs meaning for Manson. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonbeatles.html
Here are some replies Lennon gave the press at different times being asked about his toughts of the Manson affair: "It has nothing to do with me. It's like that guy, Son of Sam, who was having these talks with the dog. Manson was just an extreme version of the people who came up with the 'Paul is dead' thing or who figured out that the initials to 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' were LSD and concluded I was writing about acid."
"I'm a peace-loving man. If I were a praying man, I'd pray to be delivered from people like Charles Manson who claim to know better than I do what my songs are supposed to mean."
Reporter Donald White also quoted Lennon as saying, "Why didn't Manson listen to our song 'Revolution?' 'Revolution' clearly states my position on violence. 'When you talk about destruction, you can count me out!'"
On the other hand, Manson was right in some of his speeches during the trial and John recognize it partially: "I don't know what I thought when it happened. I just think a lot of the things he says are true, that he is a child of the state, made by us, and he took their children in when nobody else would, is what he did"
Lennon didn't testify at the trial which ended on Jan. 25, 1971. Manson was found guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
Interrsting Beatles replies to Manson here:http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beatles-reactions-to-the-manson-murders.294576/
Finally, here's the story behind Paul McCartney's song "Helter Skelter".
-"Paul McCartney wanted to write the "loudest, nastiest, sweatiest rock number we could" after reading a Pete Townshend interview describing a Who track (possibly "I Can See For Miles") as "The most raucous rock 'n' roll, the dirtiest thing they'd ever done." This was the result. Some historians of popular music now believe that this song was a key influence on the development of heavy metal.
McCartney told Mojo magazine October 2008: "Just reading those lines (of the Townshend interview) fired my imagination. I thought, Right, they've done what they think was the loudest and dirtiest; we'll do what we think. I went into the studio and told the guys, 'Look, I've got this song but Pete said this and I want to do it even dirtier.' It was a great brief for the engineers, for everyone- just as fuzzy and as dirty and as loud and as filthy as you can get it is where I want to go. I was happy to have Pete's quote to get me there." The rest of the story is here http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=169
Response is spelled "responce" if one lives in the UK and since the language was spawned there, I'd say that we Americans are the ones spelling it incorrectly
There are countless spelling differences across the pond
Notably the tendency of Brits to put "u" in things ending in our. i.e. Favor vs Favour - Labor vs Labour etc
There are thousands of words spelled differently here vs there
Which U.K. is that then? The one here on Earth? If so, you're absolutely wrong. "Responce" is a spelling mistake, period.
shareAs I Brit I can confirm that, although there are some c/s differences between UK and US English, like defence for instance, response is not one of them.
shareI also remember reading somewhere that John joked "Tell him it was Paul's song" when an acquaintence told him he was going to meet Bugliosi. I forget the exact scenario but that sure sounds Lennonesque
share
From Ed Sander's The Family:
"There was talk of bringing the Beatles to the stand. Later that month the Beatles issued a statement in London saying Manson's interpretation of their lyrics was ridiculous. John Lennon was back in England after a few months of primordial scream therapy with a Los Angeles shrink"
The Beatles songs were not the motivation for murder, despite the title "Helter Skelter". It was merely a theme the prosecution successfully latched onto, and then overly simplified for the sake of this TV movie.
National Lampoon, a comedy magazine in the 1970s had a Beatles issue around 1977, I think. They had a fake interview of the Beatles where Paul stated that the actual purpose of The White Album was to cause someone to kill a bunch of people in Southern California and that they were surprised that anyone actually figured that out.
There was also a soft core porn Beatles movie called *beep* where they had to search the world for a special ring that was longed in an unnamed woman's vagina, plus items for sale from Apple Corps that included "Yester-tray", because all my spices were in disarray, but now I believe in yestertray.
It used to be a great magazine that went quickly downhill.
Apparently you haven't read the book. Real or no, Bugliosi was convinced that the reason for the murders was to start a black-white race war which would lead to Armageddon and "blackie on top"... aka "Helter Skelter." Dismayingly, those words, misspelt on the LaBianca refrigerator were withheld from the press, otherwise according to both Bugliosi and Ed Sanders' book "The Family", hundreds of people who'd heard Charlie use the words, knew his fixation on the Beatles, and had heard his own description(s) of it, could have told the police that Charlie/Family were behind the murders. Members of the Family deny it and say they were copycat murders to get Bobby Beausoleil sprung for his part in the Hinman murder.
---------------------------------
I grieved I had no shirt until I met a woman who had no pants.
I'm surprised that songs from the White Album were even in the movie. I always thought that production companies needed the songwriter's/copywright holder's permission to use songs in movies. In 1976, I think the Beatles still owned rights to the songs used in the movie. I figured that Lennon and McCartney would want nothing to do with this...maybe things were different back then?
share[deleted]
I read all the replies on this post, but lots of information seems to be missing here on the case of the Beatles lyrics and Manson's interpretation of those. Nobody talked about the song "Blackbird" from the white album, it was also parts of this song that made Manson thinking that the black people would dominate over the white in a close future "Blackbird singing in the dead of night, Take these broken wings and learn to fly, All your life, You were only waiting for this moment to arise, Blackbird singing in the dead of night, Take these sunken eyes and learn to see, All your life, You were only waiting for this moment to be free". The word "Rise" was written in blood. Also "Revolution 1 and Revolution 9" if you think about the bible's "Book of Revelation" it means the end of days. And "Piggies" meant to Manson the rich people, the high class of Hollywood, those he hated the most (in part cause he has failed to be a great singer and actor). The word "Pigs" was written also in blood on the front door of the house of Roman Polanski after the massacre.
Well I could write about this for a long time having read all the good books about this case, but I will suggest you to read Helter Skelter first, also here is a link about the songs meaning for Manson. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonbeatles.html
Here are some replies Lennon gave the press at different times being asked about his toughts of the Manson affair: "It has nothing to do with me. It's like that guy, Son of Sam, who was having these talks with the dog. Manson was just an extreme version of the people who came up with the 'Paul is dead' thing or who figured out that the initials to 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' were LSD and concluded I was writing about acid."
"I'm a peace-loving man. If I were a praying man, I'd pray to be delivered from people like Charles Manson who claim to know better than I do what my songs are supposed to mean."
Reporter Donald White also quoted Lennon as saying, "Why didn't Manson listen to our song 'Revolution?' 'Revolution' clearly states my position on violence. 'When you talk about destruction, you can count me out!'"
On the other hand, Manson was right in some of his speeches during the trial and John recognize it partially: "I don't know what I thought when it happened. I just think a lot of the things he says are true, that he is a child of the state, made by us, and he took their children in when nobody else would, is what he did"
Lennon didn't testify at the trial which ended on Jan. 25, 1971. Manson was found guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
Interresting Beatles replies to Manson here:http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beatles-reactions-to-the-manson-murders.294576/
Finally, here's the story behind Paul McCartney's song "Helter Skelter".
-"Paul McCartney wanted to write the "loudest, nastiest, sweatiest rock number we could" after reading a Pete Townshend interview describing a Who track (possibly "I Can See For Miles") as "The most raucous rock 'n' roll, the dirtiest thing they'd ever done." This was the result. Some historians of popular music now believe that this song was a key influence on the development of heavy metal.
McCartney told Mojo magazine October 2008: "Just reading those lines (of the Townshend interview) fired my imagination. I thought, Right, they've done what they think was the loudest and dirtiest; we'll do what we think. I went into the studio and told the guys, 'Look, I've got this song but Pete said this and I want to do it even dirtier.' It was a great brief for the engineers, for everyone- just as fuzzy and as dirty and as loud and as filthy as you can get it is where I want to go. I was happy to have Pete's quote to get me there." The rest of the story is here http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=169
Companies never needed permission from the artists to use their songs.
share[deleted]
I'm glad you asked the question, the answer of which I've wondered myself. It's interesting reading the responses. Now I know.
shareHelter Skelter was simply just a Rollercoaster ride in England, stated by Paul.
shareIt's actually a big tower with a slide that curls around the outside. You climb up through the middle and then go down the slide (usually on a mat or burlap sack). The UK name is Helter Skelter so Paul's lyrics make perfect sense. Manson could say practically anything and his family would eat it up.
share