This Movie Doesn't Work


It doesn't work as an action movie because there's so little action, and it doesn't work as drama/suspence because there is very little that is unpredictable - the plan was never going to remain a "feasibility study", Steiner was never going to say no, the plan was never going to succeed.

On top of this there's so much that doesn't make sense: the Devlin-Molly romance, a German agent being stationed in a small village, Steiner risking his life for a single Jew, Himmler's attitude to the plan etc.

reply

...and what an utterly stupid idea to wear their Nazi uniforms under their Polish ones, for several reasons, the heat, weight for water landing, danger of any glimpse of them scuppering the plan... doh. They'd still be shot as spies anyway even if they did strip off their polish disguises and fight in their german uniforms in the event of being rumbled, as if that gets you off the hook of a spying charge.

reply

you guys need to read the book a lot of the back story to the character of stiener is in there,the reason he tried to save the girl is in there, a lot of germans did not agree with the nazi,s

and as for the uniforms they where supposed to remove them as soon as possible prior to the mission after landing

and yes a soldier in his own uniform cannot be shot as a spy under the then geneva convention

but that has allways amazed me men sitting around a table drawing up rules of war fare

reply

Maybe the book makes more sense, but that doesn't help the movie.

My question about the Jews is: why risk it all for one girl? Millions were being slaughtered, and he makes a futile gesture for one... Dramatic yes, sensible no.

The question on uniforms is why they wore them like that at all. Whether they could be shot is a moot point as they were masquerading as Polish troops.

And by the way there is nothing odd about making rules for war. It's adolescent to believe it's all or nothing. War is just diplomacy by other means and usually ends in negotiation.

reply

you ask for answers, and the guy before you answered them just fine

first, read the book....then you will see that the railyard scene sets the tone for the movie goer to understand Col Kurt Steiner (this is my favorite Micheal Caine movie BTW...I saw this when I was in the service, and loved it after reading the book)...him sacrificing his life and career shows immense understanding of what his values were, and who is to say he did not rescue more/others during this senseless slaughter of human beings...and yes, alot of German soldiers were against the Hitler regime and what was going on

you are picking apart the movie (german uniforms underneath)..who cares?..it is a movie...probaby a cinamatic ploy for someone watching the movie to understand better,..if they were not service connected

if it was non-fiction, I could see your red marker motives....

movie buff or not, you are wrong...the movie did work..it followed the book enough.........much better than any director/ writer was doing with the likes of Stephen King novels

reply

Personally I think it's a very tense book/movie. Yes, you know that Steiner can't succeed, but it's reverse psychology: the question is, how badly will the plan fail, and how many of the Germans will escape?

But that's a personal view. As to your views on things that don't make sense:

Molly is a highly-sexed young woman trapped in the stiflingly repressive atmosphere of an 1940s English village. She falls in love with Devlin because he's an equally highly-sexed outsider, much more experienced in the outside world that she dreams of being a part of. Devlin loves her because she represents the innocence that he's long since lost. He pulls out of the romance precisely because he realizes how much he has corrupted her by getting her involved in the plan. (I admit I'm not convinced by Sutherland's casting. The Devlin of the book is much more rakish and charming. Today one would probably cast Colin Farrell.)

Joanne Grey isn't a German agent per se. She's a Nazi sympathizer who has come to the attention of the Abwehr. There were many such people living all over the UK during the war in regular contact with Germany although most were no more than dangerous nuisances.

Steiner is not a Nazi, but a Fallschirmjäger Officer, and like many German officers is deeply critical of Hitler and his anti-Jewish policies but fought loyally for their government. He has been fighting a hopeless war on the Russian Front and, faced with the opportunity of saving a young girl (he says himself that he has no special feelings for Jews), shows his nobility and courage without thinking about the consequences. In the sequel, Steiner actually changes sides after hearing that his father has been executed for his part in Operation Valkyrie.

Himmler's attitude to the plan? He likes the idea, but, knowing Hitler's violent mood swings, doesn't want to be held responsible if it fails. He gives Radl autonomy over the plan but then destroys the carte blanche so that he cannot be implicated once it is in operation.

Regarding the uniforms, as another poster has already commented, a soldier cannot be shot for spying while he is wearing his own uniform. That is a rule of the Geneva Convention.

Incidentally, it's worth watching the Director's Cut of this movie, as there is much more time given over to the Devlin/Molly relationship.

"Duck, I says..."

reply

"Steiner is not a Nazi, but a Fallschirmjäger Officer, and like many German officers is deeply critical of Hitler and his anti-Jewish policies but fought loyally for their government. He has been fighting a hopeless war on the Russian Front and, faced with the opportunity of saving a young girl (he says himself that he has no special feelings for Jews), shows his nobility and courage without thinking about the consequences. In the sequel, Steiner actually changes sides after hearing that his father has been executed for his part in Operation Valkyrie."

So in the book, Steiner survives? I saw this movie decades ago, and it was always being shown on TV. I liked it because of the actors and I had a boy crush on Jenny Agutter from "Logan's Run."

Michael Caine was superb here, and it's good to see a WW II movie showing the Germans as also being multi-faceted and not all ruthless. Plus the actors speak "normal" English and not use a fake accent.







reply

Actually, no - in "TEHL" Steiner is pronounced dead, just as in the movie. I don't imagine Higgins had any intention of writing a follow-up to begin with. But with the book's massive success, he plainly couldn't resist.

The sequel is called "The Eagle has Flown". Pretty good yarn, too, and I'm quite surprised no one ever filmed it.

"Logan's Run"... Yes, if only one could press a button and have a young Jenny Agutter appear in one's living room... (*sigh*)

"Duck, I says..."

reply

As far as I know, the issue of soldiers wearing their country's uniform beneath the uniform of another country as a disguise has not been tested in real life. The decision in "ex parte Quirin" in 1942 reads "The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals."

I would argue that by wearing the uniforms of another nation over their own that Steiner and his troops violated this interpretation of the Geneva Convention, even though they intended to fight in their own uniforms. The transgression was gaining access to enemy territory to wage war in secret by deception.

It is also worth noting that the uniform scheme was decided upon in the novel by Himmler and both Radl and Steiner appeared to think it was silly.

I personally love the irony of the novel in revealing at the end that it wasn't really Churchill anyway.



reply

Not sure about the details of the Geneva Convention but in the film The Great Escape, one captured POW was told by the Gestapo that he could be shot as a spy since he was wearing civilian clothing. He claimed it was his British uniform that was altered, and colored with boot polish. So technically, he was not out of uniform. He thought it might be a legal way out of an immediate execution, not that the Gestapo would really care about legalities.

reply

but then again,this sounds all noble and stuff but,since when did the german side care about rules and geneva conventions?

so its all baloooney anyway.

maybe the allied side would have spared them...but probably not.they would probably have taken them out in the wood and Cainefied them.

reply

but then again,this sounds all noble and stuff but,since when did the german side care about rules and geneva conventions?


I doubt that there has ever been a military force that has not at times disregarded the so called 'rules of war'

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v1/v1n4p371_lutton.html

http://www.waronwant.org/news/press-releases/17908-g4s-faces-protest-o ver-israel-torture-prisons

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/01/pows-j23.html

reply

Yeah I agree OP, this film doesnt get a pass from me just cause its got actors I like in it, and its about WWII/espionage what have you.

reply