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Claudius looking for a wife before the giant....

posted 13 years ago by fb-921-79125
12 replies | jump to latest

Might be the FAQ of the month, but no time to dig through everything....

I read both of Graves' books quite a few years ago, and saw the series when it was originally aired way back when, and at least once more, some years later.

Some time back, I bought the boxed DVD set....

A bit of a puzzlement, however. I seem to recall this being on one of the episodes _or_ in the book, but can't find it on either the DVD set or a videotape I made during the second viewing.

Claudius fell in love with a young girl, and was all set to marry her when she suddenly died.... He ended up with the giantess shortly therafter.

Does anybody else recall that being in the series, or just in the book?

****

Absolutely off topic, but I Claudius ran on our local PBS station the first time, before I had a VCR. The wife and I one night raced home to catch the next episode after supper with my parents, to find the closing credits rolling.... It seems that the Sunday night tech decided to run it an hour early so he could go home.... I don't know what happened to the guy - "management" there liked him, etc., so I presume nothing, but one can dream [grin]. I knew the guy, too, but not too well. You can bet I asked him....

Regards,

Stu.

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

I'm afraid that story only existed in the novel.

[–] fb-921-79125 13 years ago

angmc43:

Thanks!

I must have read the books between video sessions....

My brain just wants to play back young Claudius doing a sort of facepalm "WHAT!?" at the news....

(Pretty sure that Livia didn't do that one in, but it may have made her parents happy.)

I saw that "Epic that never was" thing again, too. I wish that had been completed. Would have been a pleasant hour or so, and Charles Laughton might have made it interesting. Different than Derek Jacoby by a mile, perhaps, but again fitting the "less than perfect physical specimen" example.

It also appears that Jacoby's characterization "gets" the don't stick your head up out of the foxhole idea (which Augustus seems to have noticed) - I would think a "live out in the country quietly" approach would more suit Laughton....

But who knows....

And, let's not forget that a lot of the Roman historians practiced what Claudius complains about. I'm not sure some of them liked him much; Graves seems to ignore some of that....

Regards,

Stu.

[–] jxh13 13 years ago

Claudius fell in love with a young girl, and was all set to marry her when she suddenly died.... He ended up with the giantess shortly therafter.

Medullina Camilla; as I recall, Graves suggests Livia had her poisoned so she could choose a different wife for Claudius.

[–] fb-921-79125 13 years ago

jxh13:

AARGH....

I'm going to have to find the book now....

I don't remember Livia messing with Claudius' wedding plans. I think getting him married at all was just to keep Augustus happy....

But you could be right. It's been years. I still swear I saw that on the TV at one point. Claudius' response to hearing that the girl had died just turned up a mental image of him "squealing" that she'd died (or one of the women? but it seemed like him) it the way that he did once in a while - like when Caligula had him tossed into the river and then he came back....

OTOH, I read the book after the first viewing of the series, if not after the second, and it's not hard to "see" stuff once you're familiar with characterizations like Derek Jacoby's.

Maybe it's me, but I can close my eyes while listening to the show and still see it.

(Maybe I need repairs?)

Thanks!

Stu.

[–] spqrclaudius 13 years ago

Livia poisons Medulina Camilla, Claudius' betrothed, in the novel.

[–] fb-921-79125 13 years ago

spqrclaudius:

Thanks!

I still haven't found the book.... We moved three years ago, and....

Moved in with mom, who was quite old, and needed extra care. She decided to Winter in El Paso TX in 2010 and never bothered to come back. Must have been my cooking. The wife and I basically put 30+ years (20 in our last house) into one bedroom and my office/man cave in the basement. There are boxes _everywhere_....

(Mom passed last February. We did some serious "take it to Goodwill", but the boxes are still mostly packed. Someday....)

I don't even remember where I saw the copy of "Claudius the God" (or whatever it's called). I know exactly where I saw "I Claudius", but that turned into about 20 boxes - we'd been in that house for 20 years....

I first saw your screen name and thought the "Q" was a "G". Made no sense at all. Then the brain re-booted [grin]. THIS bunch should know all about "SPQR".... (Four years of High School Latin. Couple of hours of which I remember at this point. Mom would have been 97 last May, and had about 30 years on me. As in "what's High School?" [grin].)

Back to topic - WHY would Livia poison the young girl? 'Bout all she hoped for Claudius until (apparently) about the time Augustus died was to keep him from embarrassing the family.... (IMHO....) If she thought that he was a threat, she'd have killed him. The girl's family, perhaps? Or a child that might end up in Tiberius' way?

At some point Livia _did_ figure out (as Augustus did) that Claudius was actually fairly bright, and may have been upset by that, but I can't recall where he stood v.s. Tiberius' chances. Just punishing Claudius doesn't seem likely. It also appears that she didn't figure it out (or at least didn't acknowledge it) until well after the marriage. It also appears (strictly an IMHO) that she didn't realize that the giant (Urguanilla?) was as big as she was.

Regards,

Stu.

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

Livia had a spy named Urgulania, who did much of the long-distance murders. As reward, Livia married the woman's giantess daughter Urgulanilla to Claudius. I think Livia was also angry that a family betrothal was made without her knowledge. When Sejanus betrothed his daughter to Claudius' son Drusillus, an angry Livia had her great-grandson strangled to death.

[–] fb-921-79125 13 years ago

angmc43:

Now, _that_ makes sense!

(Really - Livia's mind seems to work that way.)

Still seems odd that she sort of dissed Urgulania by foisting Claudius off on her daughter, but the connection with the Imperial Family can't be discounted, either. I think I'd have hired a food taster for my food taster, though [grin].

And, while murdering Drusillus is sort of in character, there's a whole lot of "what ever did he do to her?" there [grin]. Keeping Sejanus out of the family makes sense, but I thought he was still a minor player before she died....

(BTW, if you've seen ROME, the girl who plays Livia is really good looking. 'Course, she was very young at the time. Played with just a hint of what was to come, though. The Augustus of I Claudius seems to be a much nicer fellow than that of ROME....)

(OR, of course, both mellowed out and under Livia's thumb....)

Regards,

Stu.

[–] spqrclaudius 13 years ago

Everything said here is true. I also thought Livia's portrayal in "Rome" was interesting. In the novel "I, Claudius," Livia and Augustus' marriage is never consummated. But at HBO's hands, Livia is a dominating force in the bedroom matching Octavian's kinkiness.

[–] angmc43 13 years ago

Well, I think Urgulana rather accepted the match, considering her giantess daughter was clearly not a catch either.

The Augustus of I Claudius seems to be a much nicer fellow than that of ROME....)

Seems to be. But if you cross him, it's either exile or death. And when he's nice to you, there is the question of how much that niceness is genuine 'I-like-you' or 'I'm-pretending-to-like-you-so-don't-push-your-luck!'. Even Drusus felt a little apprehensive when Augustus gave him a glare about how Tiberius Claudius Nero was once his enemy (nice moment).
Of course, in the history books, I've always noticed a difference between the ambitious, mud-slinging, ruthless Octavian and the benevolent, peaceful, noble-ethics-espousing Augustus.
Considering the 'Augustus-being-under-Livia's-thumb' consensus in this series, it's interesting to note that the really evident moments of this were the Julia-Tiberius marriage & Postumus' putdowns (withholding his inheritance and not sending him to Tiberius). Otherwise, Augustus did have his own way quite A LOT. Despite Livia's protests, he did not bring back Agrippa (until the riots), did not cancel the Agrippa-Julia marriage, did exile Tiberius and kept his foot down for most of a decade, refused to punish Drusus for the 'compel' letter, and allowed Claudius to be in the Games. And although the Julia & Postumus exiles were started by Livia, she kept her role hidden; it was Augustus' independent decision on what to do with them.

[–] spqrclaudius 13 years ago

This was a very incisive post.

[–] hodie 10 years ago

I read the novels. I do remember the young Claudius was very close to a girl named Camilla. I remember thinking that was such a pretty name. But I don't remember what became of her. She wasn't in the series.