MovieChat Forums > Grey Gardens (1975) Discussion > I'm probably opening a can of whoop-ass ...

I'm probably opening a can of whoop-ass on myself, but....

posted 14 years ago by Yinky
27 replies | jump to latest

It seems like a lot of you are really into these gals and their story....I expected to be blown away by this movie, but I was disappointed. All I got out of it was these two women, obviously insane, bitching at each other in a house of filth. Is it the Kennedy connection that is so fascinating? I was saddened by this movie; it reminded me of another documentary that people are all crazy for, about a "movie maker" who used his family for $ for his films, didn't pay child support, and showed video of his uncle in the bathtub (he couldn't get out), etc. That movie pist me off, actually (can't remember the name). This one didn't anger me, I just don't get the appeal. What is so interesting??? I liked Little Edie's outfits, but listening to her rant about her lost beaus or whatever, and her mother singing all disillusioned-like....laying in a bedroom full of crap....I don't know, I was disappointed and I did not get it.

[–] ShoeBuckle 14 years ago

I don't think they were insane. They were however both "out there". I was struck by the film's portrayal of them as individuals. By this I mean you were able to get a glimpse into their true personalities. If a camera crew showed up at your door and started filming would we get a look at your true life or the one that you wanted us to see? The film moved past their public life and into the private world.

The film was not meant to be a barn burner with drama or excitement just around the corner. It was a documentary about the lives of an elderly mother and daughter who lived together. It did a good job at what it was trying to do.

The fact they had a Kennedy connection definitely helped some people get into the film more than normal. There is that odd mystique. Also the location where it was filmed. People fantasize about what it was to live in that community. The film has an appeal for people who have some more life stories, (that is older people). It is easier to identify with the pairs recollections of the past. "If only I would have...." done such and such.

Finally you may not think it was that great of a film but it did evoke one paragraph out of you and several more out of me. A film should make us think, discuss, disagree, find agreement, love, hate, share stories or give us some emotions. It should appeal to our inquisitive nature as humans.

[–] Yinky 14 years ago

Thank you for replying (and not insulting me).

I wasn't expecting drama or excitement; I guess I was expecting something a little more....intellectual? Artistic, maybe? Subject-wise, I mean. To be cruel about it (which I really would rather not be), they seemed just like a couple of sad, lost, mentally-ill women. But I didn't feel I was being put on, either. I think they were showing their actual selves, and I think that's very brave of them. But, and I know you won't like this, I didn't find them very interesting. Just sort of sad.

But you are right about "If only I would have...." I said "Man, if I had that house" probably about 100 times while watching.

It evoked a response from me, yes. If I thought it was completely useless or exploitive I probably wouldn't have bothered. (Although I was all over that other movie's board--but that's because the guy the doc was about actually ENRAGED me. I wish I could remember the name of that P.O.S.) I commented because I'd heard about the film's "cult" following, and that kind of thing always seems to get my attention. But these ladies just made me sad.

[–] Skarlit 14 years ago

Yinky, are you thinking of American Movie?

[–] Yinky 14 years ago

Skarlit, yes!!!! Hated it. This is the last thread/comment I had for it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181288/board/thread/116827903?p=2&d=128937629#128937629

[–] steeler33 14 years ago

Yinky it is kind of like a 1970's Hoarders movie. Not 100% looney, but what makes people watch this movie is the same thing that makes people watch 'hoarders'. Very interesting people who you learn things about.

[–] lilypad183 14 years ago

"it is kind of like a 1970's Hoarders movie."

steeler,
what did the ladies hoard?

[–] steeler33 14 years ago

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/04/17/garden/20090417-insidegreygardens_4.html

The house isn't as filled as many of those on the show, but these people share a common mental disorder. Here are some quotes about them from these NY Times pieces:

" no more than a bluff, given the Beales' spectacular disregard for cleanliness "

"Once the raccoons were evicted, the attic revealed a ceiling-high pile of treasure"

I guess you could comine it with "Animal Hoarders". Kind of a half and half combo.

[–] steeler33 14 years ago

Animal hoarding involves keeping larger than usual numbers of animals as pets without having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability. Compulsive animal hoarding can be characterized as a symptom of obsessive–compulsive disorder rather than deliberate cruelty towards animals. Hoarders are deeply attached to their pets and find it extremely difficult to let the pets go. They typically cannot comprehend that they are harming their pets by failing to provide them with proper care. Hoarders tend to believe that they provide the right amount of care for their pets. The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals provides a "Hoarding Prevention Team", which works with hoarders to help them attain a manageable and healthy number of pets.[11] Along with other compulsive hoarding behaviours, it is linked in the DSM-IV to obsessive–compulsive disorder and obsessive–compulsive personality disorder.[12] Alternatively, animal hoarding could be related to addiction, dementia, or even focal delusion.[13]

Animal hoarders display symptoms of delusional disorder in that they have a "belief system out of touch with reality".[14] Virtually all hoarders lack insight into the extent of deterioration in their habitations and the health of their animals, refusing to acknowledge that anything is wrong.[15] Delusional disorder is an effective model in that it offers an explanation of hoarder's apparent blindness to the realities of their situations. Another model that has been suggested to explain animal hoarding is attachment disorder, which is primarily caused by poor parent-child relationships during childhood.[16] As a result, those suffering from attachment disorder may turn to possessions, such as animals, to fill their need for a loving relationship. Interviews with animal hoarders have revealed that often hoarders experienced domestic trauma in childhood, providing evidence for this model.[16] Perhaps the strongest psychological model put forward to explain animal hoarding is obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_hoarder#In_popular_culture_and_fiction

Sound Familiar?

[–] lilypad183 14 years ago

"the attic revealed a ceiling-high pile of treasure"

steeler,
if that was true, why did they live in abject poverty instead of selling those "treasures"?

why did little edie sell gg and leave forever with just her personal effects and a bureau?

the animals weren't "hoarded", they went in and out of the house when they wanted.

[–] steeler33 14 years ago

Because they were semi-insane that is why. The animals may have been able to go in and out "when they wanted", but not taking sufficent care of domestic animals (giving them proper nutrition, vet care etc) is a sign that animal hoarders have. As is the pictures of those rooms with stacks of books, and "treasures" which may have just been hyperbole for stuff they used to own. Probably worth some money because of whom they were and because they were rich, but nonetheless those "treasures" were stacked in a place where no one would have used them. So the poor family would have hoarded garbage up there, the rich famous family would hoard "treasures".

[–] lilypad183 14 years ago

"Probably worth some money because of whom they were and because they were rich, but nonetheless those "treasures" were stacked in a place where no one would have used them."

steeler,
they hadn't had a dime for the forty years before the doc, how were they "rich"?
those books on the floor in pics were destroyed by age,dampness, insects and animals, they weren't worth anything.

there was furniture in the attic that the new owners had restored but nothing of value.

the edies had sold anything of value years before the doc so they could survive.
also, mrs beale received an inheritance from her father in the 1960's, the huge sum of $65,000 which she entrusted to her brother black jack to invest for her. that money was gone in a heartbeat, he was a major gambler and she never saw a cent.
little edie received $1,000 from her grandfather at that time, how long do you think that lasted?

[–] steeler33 14 years ago

I'm just saying the new owners called them "treasures" when they may not have been. Either way the property they were living in they could have sold and made money where thousands of human beings could probably live off of (10 ackers of long island property)

[–] lilypad183 14 years ago

"Either way the property they were living in they could have sold and made money where thousands of human beings could probably live off of (10 ackers of long island property)"

steeler,
they had sold most of the land years before the doc so your point is moot.

east hampton is a summer town,it's sparsely populated. thousands of people could not have moved in on a small piece of land.

[–] Yinky 14 years ago

I don't know if I would classify them as hoarders, or animal hoarders...I don't remember that many animals, and they were allowed to go outside.

The thing that bothered me was the absolute FILTH in which they lived. I have known people who live like that, with garbage and feces everywhere and it really, really grosses me out. I found it sort of curious that the younger one would spend all this time on her bizarre costumes, but neither could be bothered with taking out the trash. I can only imagine what it must have smelled like in there.

You'd think the film makers might have commented or something, rather than just exploiting it.

[–] steeler33 14 years ago

They aren't as bad as you see on the hoarder shows, but if you look at the definition of what a hoarder is and how doctors classify them, you see a lot of these points in these two women.

[–] Skarlit 14 years ago

Yeah, he's an odd fellow. A friend of mine who teaches film managed to get him to come do a q&a at the local community college for his students. Later, my friend took him out for a couple of drinks. It was ... colorful. And obnoxious.

[–] Slogutis 13 years ago

Whose an odd fellow?

[–] mister_tmg 12 years ago

I have to say, I agree with you, Yinky. I just didn't get it... by the end of the film I was longing for it to end, the two ladies moaning at one another just became intensely irritating. However I will watch the HBO movie to see if that might be more interesting.

---------------------------------------
Skating and sinning...

[–] Yinky 12 years ago

I bet Drew & Jessie make it way more interesting, heh.

[–] Errington_92 12 years ago

I can admire Grey Gardens as a documentary which simply lets its subjects lead their lives as they did away from the cameras. No sensationalism or manipulation, what we see is 100% genuine.

"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".

[–] Yinky 12 years ago

I tend to think that whenever a camera is on, there is going to be some acting going on. Even if it's just "say cheese." But I understand what you're saying.

[–] tali1 12 years ago

I too was disappointed - it felt very lazy - just plonk a camera and film it.Might have been good at 1hr but not 1hr 40 mins.Not enough probing - (but we don't know what was off limits )
I learnt more in 10 minutes from wiki than 140 mins on screen
Although was i only one who foresaw that little Eadie wanted to marry the director ?

Hey Witchdoctor, give us the magic words.
ooh ee ooh ah ah, ting tang wallawallabingba

[–] Yinky 12 years ago

That one went completely by me...though her loneliness was pretty obvious (and heartbreaking). I thought Drew Barrymore's portrayal of her was right-on.

Yeah, it was way too long. I confess to FFW some parts.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bing-57 12 years ago

> what we see is 100% genuine.

I can get that. But, filming a person's everyday life rarely makes for an interesting film. And this is a typical case where it is not interesting at all and turns out to be rather sad.

When film the daily life of a D-list celebrity, it makes for a passably interesting product, as evidenced by dozens of them on the cable networks. But even then, most of the time the celebrities have special activities planned for the cameras ("Today we'll be visiting an orphanage!").

This may have been a unique product for the time -- just sticking a camera in someone's face and filming everything for a week. But this product just doesn't stand the test of time when compared to modern attempts to film a person's life.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

[–] scottythefield 11 years ago

Well, a lot of people seem to disagree. You may have found it annoying and uninteresting, that's fine. I don't understand what you mean by a "modern attempt" to film a person's life - shot in HD on a digital camera? - or why it would necessarily be more interesting.

[–] bing-57 11 years ago

> I don't understand what you mean by a "modern attempt" to film a person's life - shot in HD on a digital camera?

By "modern", I mean a product that is at least partially guided. The producers have an idea what they want the finished product to look like, so they come prepared with a list of questions for the subject or with activities planned, like going to the zoo or the DMV.

Or, they create the whole documentary within a framework of a professionally done history of the subject and voice-overs.

This looks like a student filmmaker's first project. "Let's just stick a camera in their faces for two weeks and see if anything happens!"

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?