MovieChat Forums > La montaña sagrada (1975) Discussion > avant-garde?

avant-garde?

posted 16 years ago by avalco
7 replies | jump to latest

I was fighting with my friend as to whether or not this film would be considered avant-garde. I say it is, and he says that it clearly isn't. Can you help us put this to rest?

[–] condemned_until_rebirth82 16 years ago

well, people consider avant-garde movies are like Fritz Lang's M or Luis Bunel's Un Chien Andalou and that has been going since ever. But to think about it, The Holy Mountain was released in 1973 and its already 2008 so i would very much consider it as avant-garde.

~ nothing is as perfect as you can imagine it ~

[–] haletim 15 years ago

I would say it is absurdism at its most surreal, but not true avant garde. THM is far too conventional to be called avant garde. In my eyes, nobody ever really carried the torch since Kenneth Anger and to a much lesser extent, Stan Brakhage.

[–] ixusillwrath 15 years ago

Absurdist fiction.

Avant-garde is in the eye of the beholder. Or a better description is that there are a few scenes almost no one would consider such, and other scenes that pretty much everyone would consider such.

Did YOU see the movie as progressive and innovative?

By the way Kenneth Anger never finished a thing in his life longer than say 20 minutes. He's a music video director, not a film-maker.

Fellini, Gilliam, Polanski, those are actual film makers.

[–] fps_Twenty4 15 years ago

By the way Kenneth Anger never finished a thing in his life longer than say 20 minutes. He's a music video director, not a film-maker. Fellini, Gilliam, Polanski, those are actual film makers.

Very well put. Also, Fellini, Gilliam, and Polanski are a little bit more mature on their outlook in general. They don't make movies that beat you over the head with a shallow, one dimensional, ideology.

I think comparing Anger to Jodorowsky is an insult to Jodorowsky. The Holy Mountain is a film that can speak to anyone...not to mention, it's damn fun and interesting to watch.

"Destroy what is Evil... So that what is Good can Flourish"

[–] haletim 15 years ago

Well, what makes someone a film maker is purely subjective. Anger has made films longer than 20 minutes and they are more pure and expressive than any director mentioned in this thread. I'll take shorter visually arresting and aurally syneasthetic and poetic films over long, drawn out, conventional dramas but that's just me.

And I think Anger is more original for his time than Jodorowsky (who is really more of a shock artist, truth be told) so it is in no way an insult to compare the two. I mean, he was the first to use an ambient pop music sound track while Jodorowksy is really just kind of a more shocking and less substantial Bunuel.

[–] fps_Twenty4 14 years ago

you're just in love With Anger because he was gay. It's subjective right? *smirk*

Jodorowsky is a shock artist? Jesus...did you even WATCH fireworks?

Comparing Jodorowsky to Bunuel. +1 for Jodorowsky. Anger was a little suicidal cockroach. Get over it.

"Destroy what is Evil... So that what is Good can Flourish"

[–] subliminal-kiddo 13 years ago

Absurdist fiction.

Avant-garde is in the eye of the beholder. Or a better description is that there are a few scenes almost no one would consider such, and other scenes that pretty much everyone would consider such.

Did YOU see the movie as progressive and innovative?

By the way Kenneth Anger never finished a thing in his life longer than say 20 minutes. He's a music video director, not a film-maker.

Fellini, Gilliam, Polanski, those are actual film makers.

The Ninth Gate and The Brothers Grimm... groundbreaking moments in Cinema. The lone Master, Fellini, beats your 'Anger isn't a real filmmaker' to a bloody pulp.

Go back and look at Fellini's Body of Work, there is a noticeable shift in the mid-60's where his method becomes more surreal, and focuses on very bright, lavish, baroque details. Think; Satyricon, Giulietta degli Spiriti, and Cassanova. This shift coincides with Fellini striking up friendships with Underground American Filmmakers; Kenneth Anger, Jack Smith, and Andy Warhol. Fellini even cites Smith as a direct influence on Giulietta degli Spiriti.

Saying that the quality of a director's work can be measured in the length of his films is just silly. Please, stop playing the Film Historian, you're just embarassing yourself.