MovieChat Forums > The Sting (1973) Discussion > Question regarding the card game cheat

Question regarding the card game cheat

posted 10 years ago by nelking
12 replies | jump to latest

I haven't seen this posted on....I just re-watched the scene to hear the exact wording...... in the scene in Lonnigan's room after the poker game, Lonnigan's goon tries to defend himself by saying "I know I GAVE HIM four threes". To me, that would make sense if the goon had been dealing the cards but, of course, he wasn't....one of the other (presumably, honest) players had dealt that hand. So, what does that comment mean? That, during the break they took just before that final hand, the goon somehow got access to the deck and was able to rig it (even after the draw) that Gondorf would have ended up with the four threes? For one thing, he'd have to know whether that 3rd player (ie the dealer) would be staying in or dropping out, how many cards he would take on the draw, etc. But, over and above that, the goon would have pretty much needed several minutes ALL ALONE with the deck to have rigged it like that....and, also, he'd have to assume that, after this 3rd (honest) player did get the deck in his hands when they resumed play, he would just begin dealing the cards as is, without any shuffling, cutting, etc. I love this movie but can't figure that scene out.

[–] scrabbler1 10 years ago

I remember during the break before the key deal Lonnegan told his goon something like, "I'll cut it in on Clayton's deal," referring to one of the other players. The goon asked Lonnegan what he waned to do about Clayton and Lonnegan replied something like, "I want him out early."

We saw at the beginning of the deal Lonnegan substituting his rigged deck for the actual deck when he cut the cards. He put the actual deck into a hanky when he put his hands under the table and out of view of everyone else, then pretended to wipe his face when he returned his hands from under it.

As for which deck to use (color and style), that was already known before they took their break. Gondorf knew which deck, too. Gondorf already knew which of several possible decks they used when we saw J.J. tell him in a scene before the poker game began, and palmed 4 Jacks he could substitute for the 4 Threes at the key moment.

[–] nelking 10 years ago

Scrabler...........wow. good stuff. Thanks. I'm definitely going to have to re-watch it as I missed much of that. I was aware of Lonnegan dropping the deck to his lap and into the hanky but I didn't realize that was during the cut.....I wonder how realistic that would be for someone other than an actual magician to be able to do that when simply cutting the cards. Thanks again for the input.

[–] HOKfilms 9 years ago

If you had just rewatched it, how could you miss the previous scene where Gondorf tells the goon to rig the deck and you see the good actually begin to rig the deck. then miss the part where he switches the deck?
lol

I <3 Emily Blunt

[–] slcdmw01 9 years ago

When Floyd says, "Doyle, I know I gave him four threes!", Floyd is referring to when he assembled a stacked deck earlier. Lonnegan had originally told him, "Stack me a cooler, Floyd, threes and nines. I'll cut it in on Clayton's deal". A "cooler" is a stacked deck that replaces the original deck, so-called because the new cards would feel cooler to the touch, not having been handled.

[–] nelking 9 years ago

sic............good stuff! Wow, I definitely missed that. Oh well, it'll give me an excuse to watch a great movie one more time. Thanks!

[–] slcdmw01 9 years ago

Hey, you're certainly welcome. Great film; I saw it in the theaters when it first came out, Christmas 1973. I go back and watch it again every decade or so. The settings and costumes are so complete and together, and the script is so tight and includes so many memorable lines. Classic; no wonder it won 7 Oscars.

[–] nelking 9 years ago

sic...no doubt it is a real classic. I have a feeling you're around the same age that I am (60)...what makes me feel old is that, when it came out in 73 it was about an era that had taken place SO long ago (1934 or 1936 IIRC)............BUT..........the gap between the period of time that the movie took place and the release date of the movie was less than the time that has elapsed SINCE the release of the movie (not sure if that makes any sense, but time sure flies!)

[–] canuckteach 9 years ago

John Scarne, who was a consultant on the film, and performed the card stunts for Newman, was famous for cutting 4 aces out of a deck, sometimes tossing the deck into the air, and pulling the last ace from the fluttering cards.

He performed in the roaring 20's and 30's in night clubs, for private guests, like members of the Detroit 'Purple' gang. One night, a hood asked him if he could pull 4 aces out of the deck if the hood cut the deck just before the stunt. Scarne agreed to try, and, amazingly, got all 4. Later, outside, his buddy asked him how he had managed it - Scarne pulled out a hanky and a deck of cards - and announced that THIS was the deck the hoodlum had cut. He had back-palmed in a rigged deck under everyone's noses, and 'pulled' the original deck that had been cut.

The stunt, as we see it by Lonergan, is similar - only this was a movie - Scarne did his 'live'!

:-) canuckteach (--:

[–] nelking 9 years ago

Great story! I've heard of Scarne but didn't realize he was that old.

[–] scrabbler1 9 years ago

When you watch the scene where Newman is doing those card tricks for Redford, look closely at his fingernails. They are not trimmed the same for Newman as his stunt double, Scarne, when they use some tricky movie edits to make it look like it is actually Newman doing the tricks.

[–] jthemanjj 9 years ago

If you watch (esp. on a large screen TV) you can see the edit where it goes from Scarne to Newman - it's right after the cards are ribbon spread on table and turned over....Scarne's hands briefly go out of frame and you see a slight jump where the edit happens and then Newman pushes cards together and camera pans up to show him.

[–] gottaluvafriend 8 years ago

The movie's suspension of disbelief doesn't fail here. You're being unnecessarily technical. Just sit back and enjoy the movie. :-)