MovieChat Forums > The Sting (1973) Discussion > Why the big deal about placing a bet?

Why the big deal about placing a bet?

posted 12 years ago by flare_for_roach
26 replies | jump to latest

Just watched my new Blu Ray of "The Sting". I understand almost all of it but I didn't catch why Kid Twist told Lonnegan at the final bet "I said "place" on Lucky Dan". At that point Lonnegan ran up and screamed that there was a mistake and he rattled the cage. What I don't understand is why was it necessary to say that at all? Agent Polk was all set to bust in once Lonnegan handed the money over, right? Hooker and Gondorff were going to shoot blanks at each other anyway. Seems like an unnecessary risk to alert Lonnegan that a con was at play if he smelled that he was set up.

[–] gabby_bm 12 years ago

I'd say so Lonnegan would call out Hooker to get his money back in front of Gondorff, prompting Gondorff to shoot Hooker for the doublecross in front of him. "Feds" come in, shoot Gondorff in front of Lonnegan and so to him, both conmen are dead. Less chance of Lonnegan coming to look for them.

It just seems "cleaner" that way, to have Gondorff shoot Hooker and the Feds to shoot Gondorff.

My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.

[–] flare_for_roach 12 years ago

But that's not what happened. Lonnegan didn't call out Hooker. Gondorff shot Hooker after the feds came in and Agent Polk acknowledged Hooker's part of ratting out Gondorff. The idea to sell Lonnegan on Hooker's and Gondorff's deaths were planned, Lonnegan's participation wasn't a part of the plan.

[–] gabby_bm 12 years ago

Oh yeah, I was mis-remembering how that all went down.(it's been a while).

Well, that was my best guess then.

Of course, then one could surmise that Lonnegan may not have even commented about "putting it all to win". He very well could have just said the bet was made. That entire conversation between them wasn't planned and so telling Lonnegan he bet it wrong was an added contingency just in case. It didn't serve or assist the con in any way, but it did assist in making Lonnegan feel like a fool- just a little extra pinprick to his inflated sense of ego.

My "#3" key is broken so I'm putting one here so i can cut & paste with it.

[–] SidekickinWhiteFury 12 years ago

"You gotta keep the con after you take his money. He can't know you took him."

The "Place" mistake, is so Lonnegan thinks it is his fault he lost the money.
And is less inclined to try and get it back, since he messed up and blew the bet,
rather than just was conned out of it.

Remember Lonnegan thinks he is on the inside, and they are taking the book making establishment.
Off track bets were still illegal then, there's nothing for him to do but just
take the loss.

[–] scrabbler1 12 years ago

Well put, I couldn't have said it better myself!

[–] EllisFowler 12 years ago

Agreed. And the "fed" was thrown in to solve the problem of Snyder. His presence kills two birds with one stone because he "commissions" Snyder to make sure Lonnegan is hustled away after the two "shootings"...without his cash. Beautiful!

[–] montrossboc-1 11 years ago

But Lonnegan knows he's been taken, because the cop is going to tell him what the scheme was that the FBI were busting in on.

He'll just think the two guys who took him are dead.

He is going to try to recover his money.

Short Cut, Draw Blood

[–] gottaluvafriend 8 years ago

Plus, they knew that they'd be able to cause Snyder to insist that Lonnegan leave immediately because two men had just been killed, so there was no risk of Lonnegan sticking around.

[–] jackmronner 12 years ago

Bottom line: it made for a better, more convolute, ending. If one were to credit Lonnegan with some honor amongst thieves, perhaps it was a "belt and suspenders" approach to avoiding Lonnegan's looking into the principals and their associates in an effort to recoup his losses; The belt: feeling personally responsible and abashed at blowing the bet himself, maybe they figured he'd let it drop, having lost it fair and square, as opposed to having it seized by the Feds without the mechanism of the bet. The "suspenders" was their deaths, also aimed avoiding blowback.

[–] There_Is_No_Sayid 12 years ago

In horse racing parlance "place" means that a horse came in second. When Kid Twist, posing as the Western Union official, tips off Lonnegan he tells him "place it on Lucky Dan" meaning "put a bet on Lucky Dan to come in second." Lonnegan misinterprets this as meaning that he should bet on Lucky Dan to win.

From the perspective of the con artists the "place it" play helps shelter them from Lonnegan. Afterwards he will presumably assume that his loss was a horrific mistake rather than a con.

"Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I don't think Hugo can track anything."

[–] EllisFowler 12 years ago

A wonderful play on semantics, isn't it? But I'm pretty sure the horse can place third as well, no?

[–] jrs-8 12 years ago

A horse finishing third is called a show. Win, place, show is the order. For you to be the horse placing it needs to finish second at worst.

[–] EllisFowler 12 years ago

Huh. I could swear third place was included but then, I don't play the ponies. Has it always been so?

[–] jrs-8 12 years ago

I am not much of a horse bettor myself but, yes, I think it has always been that way.

[–] EllisFowler 12 years ago

Thanks for the clarification!

[–] gregopego12 12 years ago

Spoiler Alert!
This is also in the book "The Big Con" By David Mauer.
Same scenario.
"I said 'place it on Lucky Dan.'" You can bet win or place or show, or win, place and show, or win and place. (right?)
You, also need the big blowoff at the end. Lonnigan doesn't seem the type to take a lapse in semantics from keeping him from his money.
Until the "cackle bladder." There is no reason for him to stick around with a supposed double homicide.

"I even wrote in my diary! Veronica Corningstone made a very funny joke today!"

[–] montrossboc-1 11 years ago

But again, isn't the cop (Charles Durning) going to tell Lonnegan that the FBI pulled the raid because there was a con being run?

Short Cut, Draw Blood

[–] amd8404 11 years ago

No, in a bet to place the horse must finish 1st or 2nd. In a bet to show, the horse can finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] movieghoul 8 years ago

The presumption is that Lonnegan can afford to lose the money, but can't afford to try to welsh on the bet if he wants to keep his rep. THey have to leave him thinking it's his own fault.

[–] places4spam 12 years ago

SidekickinWhiteFury said it best

[–] GiaJake 12 years ago

Don 't forget, maybe Lonnergan would look up the race results in a newspaper. It would have to say the horse ran second, in order to keep the con. The phone call was deliberately worded that way, as all previous bets were placed to win. Anyone would assume the last race would be played to win. Not only did they want to take his money, they wanted Lonnergan to believe he made the mistake. Even before the fake FBI arrived, Lonnergan assumed he had messed up the bet.

[–] Nameless-3 11 years ago

Yeah, the FBI ensure the burnout. Notice that they do not call "Shaw" and "Kelly" by their real names (they do call "Shaw" Henry, but that's not contradictory to the set-up). Lonnigan has no idea that they're arresting two con artists, he thinks the feds are raiding an illegal saloon. Snyder presumably might wise him up, but I kind of doubt it, and even so, by the time he does everyone's going to be long gone.

The Nameless

I am not what I am

[–] bregund 11 years ago

Lonnegan has a certain amount of honor, he has to if he wants to look respectable, after all he refers to himself as a "banker". He didn't bat an eye when he lost during the card game, he accepted the defeat and was ready to pay. Losing his money in the disastrous bet at the end was basically an insurance policy against his ever coming back to recoup his losses. Just as with the card game, he accepts his defeat.

[–] binge_drinking 11 years ago

Because that was the only way he would realize he'd lost. If he thought his bet was good, there's no way he's going to let an FBI bust keep him away from his $2 million in winnings.

http://tinyurl.com/nqdpspm

[–] 8 years ago

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