MovieChat Forums > Sleeper (1973) Discussion > Questions about cultural specificities i...

Questions about cultural specificities in the film


Hi everybody! I'm working on Sleeper about the original version in English and its dubbed and subtitled versions in Spanish and French. I'm Spanish, so it's quite difficult for me to understand some jokes or just to know some people mentioned in the film. These are my questions:
- I believe that there's an intelligence to the universe, with the exception of certain parts of New Jersey. I guess people from New Jersey are not supposed to be brilliant in the American cultural ethos. Is that right?
- Is McKuen a poet considered by some people as a "greeting card poet"?
- Luna Schlosser: I'm great physically. I got a Ph.D. in oral sex.
Miles Monroe: Yeah, they make you take any Spanish with that? (Does the word Spanish in slang have something to do with sex in some way -e.g., in Spain a blow-job can be called "a French").
- I'm Not Really The Heroic Type. I was beat up by Quakers. Quakers were/are a very a peaceful religious group, weren't they?
- Dr. Melik: [puzzling over list of items sold at Miles' old health-food store] ... wheat germ, organic honey and... tiger's milk. Is tiger's milk really milk from a tiger? I guess it's just a parody of what we consider healthy food.
- This is Bela Lugosi. he was, he was the mayor of New York city for a while, you can see what it did to him there, you know. I don't understand this? Where the hell there's a link between Lugosi and NYC Council?
- Miles Monroe: You remind me of Lisa Sorenson
Luna Schlosser: Who?
Miles Monroe: An old girlfriend from the village. A Trotskyite, who became a Jesus freak, and was arrested for selling pornographic connect-the-dot books. I haven't been able to find a famous Lisa Sorenson. There are just lawyers, scientists and so on.
And finally I don't know anything about Jewish terms, such as Kugat. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks a lot.





reply

Pajarobelga, this is an excellent thread and I'm sure that you're going to get a lot of help with this. I must tell you that I'm British so I won't be able to help on everything but let's see what we can do.
- Lisa Sorenson was just a generic, made-up name that implies the kind of student who, when they get to college, join any number of issue groups in a quest for their own identity. The idea of the joke is of so many students become very left-wing politically but as more of a "badge" than of something that they truly believe in or understand. Also, I think that Greenwich village ("the village") in New York has a liberal, left-wing tradition
- Bela Lugosi as Mayor of New York. I think that New York had a reputation of being a badly run, crime-ridden, dirty city (the cover of the first "Ramones" album, from 1976, is of the four guys standing by a dumpster in New York). In Miles' situation, the temptation might be to tell the Doctors any old nonsense. The joke is that being Mayor of New York would be such an impossible job that the stress of it would make any person look as horrific as Lugosi. See if you can find the excellent film "The Taking Of Pelham 1,2,3". I think that it was made a year after "Sleeper" and it contains a very fine satirical portrayal of a New York Mayor.
- I don't think that Kugat is a Jewish term. I think that it was just a word invented by Woody and Marshall Brickman for 200 years in the future. I've never heard of McKuen either; I think that that might be a writer's name invented by them too.
- You are correct about The Quakers.
- New Jersey is seen as a rough area of the New York area. The series "The Sopranos" is set there. The cliched reputation is of an area that has very little going on there which would make a person want to stay in New Jersey.
- The Ph.D oral sex/Spanish joke is just a reference to how people often study two or more subjects. I think Miles justs finds the idea of a student saying "I'm studying Spanish and oral sex" funny in that context.
- I think that 'Tiger's Milk' was an actual health drink of the time. I don't think that it has any literal connection to tigers.

I hope this has been of some help. As I say, I'm British and I've not even visited the USA so hopefully, they will be some New Yorkers or other Americans (scorp gal 03?) who can read this thread and correct, amplify, or otherwise improve upon what I've said.

reply

Hey, this isn't anything to do with Sleeper, but just to let you know about a question you asked about Carnal Knowledge (1971) being the first film to use the word c--t.

“Boys in the Band, The” (1970)

Michael: “Donald, you’re a real card-carrying c--t”.

I think it has it beat it terms of what film said it first.

reply

Sorry for jumping around a bit, but there are some that were answered and others I don't know, either

- New Jersey is often seen as having all the bad aspects of New York, but without any of the good. I don't know how universal that is, but most people I've met outside of New York/New Jersey/Western Connecticut don't seem to know it.

- Many people don't like having to study a foreign language, but are required to for most liberal arts colleges (the type that would most likely offer a PhD in oral sex). Woody is trying to bring the conversation to a more "normal" level. I don't believe it's a sexual term on its own (like French or Greek are). Speaking of which, I love hearing Americans talk about "French kisses" around Europeans - I just wanted to add that.

- Correct on Quakers. They're also known as the "Society Of Friends"

reply

the spanish line always makes me think of spanish fly, which was believed to make women horny. i don't know if that kind of reference was intended.

reply

Thanks everyone who's taken part in this subject for helping me.
Miles: What a hen! (he sees an enormous leashed hen). Is there a double-meaning, hen meaning girl?

Luna: I can’t swim!
Miles: What do you mean, you can’t swim?
Luna: I mean I can’t swim.
Miles: I can’t swim either. Get on top of me. Come on, get on top of me
Luna: I don’t wanna get wet.
Miles: Hurry up. Paddle.
Luna: I’m paddling.
Miles: Don’t worry. I was a lifeguard at Bloomingdale.
I've found there are a whole bunch of towns and cities called Bloomingdale, besides one of Allen's favourite boutiques in Manhattan.

Luna: What do you feel like to be dead for 200 years?
Miles: It’s like spending a weekend in Beverly Hills.
Beverly Hills regarded as a conservative, full-of-money place or as a boring place?
Luna Schlosser: You were screaming out different names in your sleep.
Miles Monroe: I was having sexual nightmares.
(...)
Luna: Who are the A&P Gypsies?
I've found that A&P is an important supermarket food chain. Is there any link?

Thanks again. I must hand this essay in very few days' time, so I hope your answers will be published quickly. I promise I'll talk about the translation of this film into Spanish, French and Italian very soon. There's much fun. Some of the scenes have been completely changed.

reply

Sorry this is coming a bit late, but the Bloomingdales that Woody Allen refers to is the Manhattan store (as he also says in Annie Hall, "If the Gestapo would take away your Bloomingdale's charge card, you'd tell 'em everything").

Woody doesn't seem to like Southern California much. Again from Annie Hall, he said, "They don't throw their garbage away, they turn it into television shows." Beverly Hills is seen as a very rich, unrealistic place (but more liberal than conservative). The stereotype is that everyone is pretending to be someone they're not, as opposed to New York, where everyone is forcibly themselves.

I'm not sure on the hen, and my wild guess is that the A&P Gypsies are just an odd name to be calling out. Allen is a big fan of non sequitors.

reply

Thanks mwantman. Your answer came up a wee bit late indeed, but nevermind. Fortunately I came across the answer from Bloomingdale's in a book about the greatest films in history (according to the author, Manhattan is among them, but I must admit that I don't particularly like that one).
As for Beverly Hills, a Tacoma girl I met in France made me see the light.
Finally, A&P Gypsies was part of a big band working for a radio station, a very popular thing in the 30s I believe. This one was very tough to find on the Internet. I'm not sure on the hen either.
Thanks again for your interest. As I said above, I'll comment some interesting aspects of the translation. I can send them by email if you prefer. I still don't know my mark.

reply

The A&P Gypsies were a popular music orchestra featured on a radio program sponsored by the A&P Grocery chain in the 1930's.

reply

Many people don't like having to study a foreign language

That I don't get. Studying foreign languages is easy and fun. For me, I majored in Computer Science and just took Spanish as my fun classes.

reply

I'm only, what, five, six years late here? I think 'Cugat' would be a reference to bandleader Xavier Cugat, used here as an artistic ultimate by Luna, praising her friend's painting as 'Keane...no, greater than Keane' (referring to Walter and Margaret Keane, who introduced those horrifying wide-eyed kid portraits to the world.)

reply

I'm just a bit later than you, but here's a few things.

It's not Keane, it is "keen." The reference here is to an old slang word. I believe it is being used here to show how the really "groovy" slang words are so old they're "cool" again.


In reference to the joke about the hen:


He is being "hen-pecked" by Luna. "Hen-pecked" is when the woman gives the orders and the man is supposed to meekly obey.

reply

[deleted]

Actually, you're both correct.

"Keen" was an outdated and less hip term to mean "cool."

But, the follow up joke does indeed riff on "Keane" to be referencing Margaret Keane, as it is one of her paintings Diane Keaton is looking at. Woody used the double meaning of the term Keen/Keane to move on to Cugat, which was the name of a famous bandleader.

Personally, I always thought the hen joke was just Woody being absurd. A great many of his jokes are just slapstick. "Bigger is better" was and is a common belief in the U.S., hence the giant fruit and giant hen would be seen as an advance of civilization. Why a chicken? Maybe you're right about hen pecked. But just as likely he chose a chicken because chickens are a familiar comic gag.

reply

But just as likely he chose a chicken because chickens are a familiar comic gag.

Human sized giant chickens being used visual comic gags in movies goes back at least far as Charlie Chaplin in The Gold Rush.

I always thought that one of the most culturally specific jokes in this movie, one that I bet even a fair number of Americans under about 35 or so wouldn't really get, was the one about people being forced to watch Howard Cosell as punishment when they committed some terrible crime.

reply

Cossel was a good friend of Woody Allen's.

To be blunt, who cares if people under 35 don't get it? I watch a lot of old movies and it's fun to look up the reference that I don't get.

I saw an old 1930's movie on TCM where they made a reference to a "woman standing at the corner of 5th Ave. and 49th Street. Today this is Rockefeller Center. Back then, that address was the site of a lot of saloons and brothels. Context is everything.

reply

"McKuen" is a reference to poet and songwriter Rod McKuen (1933 - ).

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

Haven't read all the replies, so perhaps these have been answered already.

First, it must be pointed out that Bela Lugosi was the most famous actor to play Count Dracula, the vampire, literally a bloodsucker. A bloodsucker is also slang for someone who drains money, power, etcl from something or someone for their own benefit, as would a dishonest politician such as the Mayor of New York. Additionally, his Dracula make-up was white, making him look like a dead person, so he is referring to how the job has drained the mayor, making him look unhealthy.

New Jersey: many television shows were written by or took place in Manhattan, and they often made fun of New Jersey for various reasons. Manhattanites make fun of everybody, considering them less sophisticated, even other New Yorkers, whom they call "the bridge and tunnel" crowd, referring to the two main ways to get onto the island of Manhattan. Further, the areas of New Jersey visible from Manhattan until recently were dried yellow marshland and oil refineries.

McKuen, very popular for a brief period, was indeed considered "Pop culture" by the literate set. Not a serious talent.

Finally, Spanish might be a reference to Spanish Fly, a supposed female aphrodisiac, which would help if she were studying sexual technique. Or, it might have just been referring to a required foreign language course.

Adios.

reply

"New Jersey: many television shows were written by or took place in Manhattan, and they often made fun of New Jersey for various reasons. Manhattanites make fun of everybody, considering them less sophisticated, even other New Yorkers ...."

Woody Allen has a reputation as one of these, reportedly hating to leave New York.

How New Yorkers see the world: http://www.imaginaryatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/ny.jpg (cover of New Yorker magazine, March 29, 1976).

reply

It's a little late for your class project, but many of the American cultural references from 1973 also go right past younger Americans.

reply