MovieChat Forums > Magnum Force (1973) Discussion > The problem with the way ****** dies...

The problem with the way ****** dies...

posted 16 years ago by inhock-1
29 replies | jump to latest

The problem with the way Davis dies is that it is of course hard to believe that the fall killed him when we can be 100% certain the stunt man (Dar Robinson) survived it. I first saw Magnum Force a year or so after it's theatrical release and from the moment I saw the death jump I wondered about the lethality of it all. My dad assured me of how it could happen - broken neck, hit by the bike, unconscious, drowning, etc. But I couldn't shake off the idea that it couldn't have been all that dangerous or they wouldn't have done the stunt. Besides, it didn't look all that bad - but come to think of it neither did the fatal Earnhardt crash in the Daytona 500.

I also remember that back then audiences were a wee bit different. We were less judgmental and a lot easier to please. My two older brothers and their assortment of Eddie Haskell type friends bounded off to the theater to see Magnum Force when it first came out. I think that's all they talked about for weeks afterward. And the thing that they were most impressed about (apart from the T&A) was - yep - Davis' drive off the edge of the ship into the drink. Today, Harry would have to have blown up the three carriers, the dock, the pier, all the buildings and half of Frisco Bay to try please an audience - and he still couldn't come close.

When I finally got to see MF in its unedited glory I was less impressed by the Davis death where I was completely blown away with how they killed off Officer Grimes. Unlike the lame dummy that stands in for the nekkid blonde that does the header out the window, the Grimes dummy wipe out is seamless without anything to betray that it's a movie gag. Even by today's standards it holds up well and is more than a little gut wrenching to watch. Then again, maybe it was real. Maybe they got Super Dave Osborne to do the stunt.

I'm so old.

[–] pawtrax67 16 years ago

That is one of the problems with the script. It was probably written that he'd fall into the water with the bike impacting on TOP of him. But of course Dar can't land it like that or he might have gotten killed. I have a bigger problem with Early going for his mailbox instead of answering the phone. I grew up in the 70's and if I was going to the door with my groceries, I'd try and grab the phone before checking my mail. After all the mail isn't going anywhere right?

I think that scene would have been more powerful if slightly changed in two ways.
The phone rings, Early get the phone. Harry relays the message he has a bomb in his mailbox and one of two things happen:

a) As soon as he hangs up the phone a motorcycle cop shoots him (creating a false sense of security because we think Harry got to him in time).

b) He goes out the door and his wife is just opening the mailbox, Early tries to warn her but the bomb goes off killing one or both of them.

Both of these would have been more dramatic and emotional than the way he died in the film.

[–] inhock-1 16 years ago

Agreed - I have dropped or set groceries down to run and get the phone first. Younger people might not believe it but answering machines weren't all that common until well into the eighties. Call Waiting? In the 1970s that consisted of standing by the phone hoping they called back!!!

There's a lot of ways they could have gone I guess. Your way adds much needed personal confrontation. My problem is the whole bomb as the preferred means of disposing of loyal cops was an unfortunate choice by the film makers. All during the movie it's mostly up close and personal "death by magnum" before they suddenly get squeamish about killing cops up close and personal. I think the way Davis murders Charlie McCoy is the type of cold brutality they should have explored in taking down Early and Harry. My take on killers is that the mode of killing seem to be rather important to them. These rogue cops were gunmen executioners, saying as much with how they killed as the killing itself. After all, they could have just as easily ambushed all of the people they killed in plain clothes while they were off duty.

If I were to take a crack at a rewrite I think I would have had a trusting Early murdered by Briggs in a scene just prior to Briggs going to Harry's apartment. A scene as brutal and treacherous as the "Rollo Tomasi" scene from "LA Confidential" between Early and Briggs would have fit the bill nicely. Rather than have Harry call Briggs, I would have Briggs just show up at Harry's apartment after Early is killed. The audience would be in on the danger Harry is in (Hitchcock's ticking bomb) and that whole apartment scene would have been a heart stopper. Harry would just be starting to put a few of the final pieces of the puzzle together - but just too late - as Briggs gets the drop on him.

I think the final compliment to a movie just might be that audiences find it interesting enough to write about it decades after it was the day's buzz - to the point of even wanting to change it around a little.

[–] flyer333555 16 years ago

I would never drop the groceries to answer the phone. If it is a very important call, the caller can and should always call back. If they don't, it was not that important!

[–] brightmidnight71 16 years ago

I think the fact that Davis is floating face down after riding into the drink is a pretty clear indicator that he's dead. If he isn't dead, he's unconscious and drowning, and Harry sure ain't going to save him. Sure, it's a little anti-climactic for what we see as a the main villian for most of the film, but there's an explosion soon after that makes up for it.

"When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing."

[–] JH_Kalashnikov 16 years ago

I always thought that the beginning of the film when Carmine Ricca and his gang are shot in the car was a bit of an issue.

There are dozens and dozens of cars in the area before and during the shooting. Look in the background and you'll see what I mean. How can a cop using a magnum fire six shots in a car, walk away, get on his motorcycle and casually speed off without even so much as a witness? This would of made much more sense if the cop had attached a silencer (such as in the scene later on in the apartment building even though the silencer would of done no good but let's keep our disbelief level high), but this guy squeezed off six shots from a magnum (a gun that is sure as hell going to be heard for quite some distance) and left without any problems. Plus, these four murders took place in broad daylight. If someone could possibly explain this fault then I will be more than happy.

Obama/Biden '08
Change We Can Believe In.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] chris-rogers2 15 years ago

Because, contrary to what is shown in MF and other films of this era, silencers don't work with revolvers as the tiny gap between the chamber and the frame - necessary to let the former actually revolve - allows propellent through, and it's the propellant moving supersonically that creates the gunshot noise. But it's a common fault, when - as someone posts - audiences were a bit less sophisticated.

Personally, having just watched the film again, the only real flaw is the huge unlikelihood of Briggs just letting Harry go.

[–] revboose 15 years ago

The cycle cop took the license to buy some time and watch for a clearing in traffic. We see them later practicing rapid shooting - rapid *accurate* shooting. He saw an opening, was in an area where the noise could be dismissed if it wasn't repeated, shot them, drove off a ways, then came back and called it in. A gun fired in a wide-open, wind-swept area doesn't have a sound that identifiably carries all that well, especially in mid-day.

[–] manipool 13 years ago

Exactly what I thought. Why would you (Early) hear the phone ring (knowing you're in possible danger) and decide to go to the mailbox and open it first? We definitely were much more innocent and perhaps a little dumber in those days accepting a lot of stuff without questioning it. I mean, look at the really red blood that looks like paint when someone bleeds, or the obvious use of dummies for falls or other dangerous stunts. I cringe sometimes at it all, but it's the best they had at the time.

[–] Johnnyjueves 15 years ago

Seeing as Davis lost his helmet just before he fell into the drink, they should have arranged for him to knock his head on the railing when he loses control of his motorbike. That way he'd fall into the water unconscious and drown.

[–] profh-1 15 years ago

"My problem is the whole bomb as the preferred means of disposing of loyal cops was an unfortunate choice by the film makers. All during the movie it's mostly up close and personal "death by magnum" before they suddenly get squeamish about killing cops up close and personal."

This suggests to me that BRIGGS set the bombs himself.

[–] davieq76 14 years ago

I watched this again the other night, and have to admit the ending dissapoints me. It feels kind of rushed, and given the way Davis fell/landed into the water he most likely would of survived. The next clip is of him floating face down, given he seemed to land feet first which would of broken the water and made it a softer landing..

[–] Squonkamatic 14 years ago

kroyall has it right -- Magnum Force is a big ghoulish ultra brutal live action comic book adventure for grown ups, and in comic books you can die just by falling off an escort carrier and landing in the bay, even feet first. I also like the point about Grimes' getting pwned by the front of Harry's car, my favorite moment of destruction in the film. Not only does the guy get crunched but there's a big dent in the front the shape of a motorcycle hitting the car head on after, with the steel motorcycle helpfully bouncing off so Harry can drive to the next scene. Its about as realistic as a Wile E. Coyote cartoon and that's why it works.

[–] ianprl 14 years ago

Well said Kroyall and Squonk

and of course, if Harry fell off the carrier, he would not only survive but sprint back into the fight.

[–] marmac2768 13 years ago

I have always not liked the way this movie ended. Here were the two best guns in the SFPD getting ready to have a showdown and it ends with one just flying off into the air on a motorcycle dying in the splashdown!! Talk about a letdown!! In fact, there is very little gunplay in the conclusion. He beats one to death, hits one with the car and the last one goes off the edge!! Then, he blows the "main" bad guy up with a bomb. Very much a letdown.

[–] manipool 13 years ago

In terms of Davis dying from the fall into the water. The impact of the fall couldn't have knocked him unconscious or possibly created bodily trauma. Hitting an expanse of water from a great height can be like hitting a brick wall to the human body.

[–] Kroyall1962 14 years ago

You are over-thinking it. Dirty Harry movies are entertaining. The are not based on any realism whatsoever. NO cop could ever get away with ANY of the stuff Harry does.

[–] Superunknovvn 13 years ago

I agree about that kill and many others in the movie.

The murders were all done with so little discretion that those cops would never have gone undiscovered for more than 5 minutes.

I was dissapointed that in the end there wasn't a shoot out between harry and davis, because that's what the whole movie with the two of them being the best seemed to have been built up to.

the mailbox scene was ridiculous (and why does every grocery bag have to have vegetable sticking out on top of it??).

but most stupid was the way briggs dies in the end. a) he would easily have seen harry re-arming the bomb. b) why would he drive off in the car? if his plan was to nail it all on harry, why wouldn't he just stand there with him and call the police?

some of these things are just stupid, others just could have been made a bit more convincingly and probably would nowadays. and then in 20 years they'd look stupid again.

"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school"

[–] lomuironbullspunk 13 years ago

Every time i watch the scene with Early going for his mail i half expect the smoke to clear with him still standing there with his hair blown backwards and with dirt on his face

[–] urciolo 13 years ago

When Davis went into the water, the fall itself wasn't very steep - it appeared to be 20-25 feet - plus he landed feet first. I really can't see how that would killed him.

Cats are delicate dainty animals who suffer from a variety of ailments ... except insomnia.

[–] josey71 12 years ago

Davis dying after driving his bike off the carrier is entirely plausible. If Davis was wearing a helmet the impact would have snapped his neck like a twig. In fact the film specifically show's his helmet falling off shortly before he hits the water because the stuntman simply couldn't have done it wearing one, and therefore why Davis ain't wearing one when he hits the water. Google Exercise Tiger about a D-Day training exercise that got fouled up with many GIs leaping off ships wearing their helmets and dying in this very manner.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] manram24 12 years ago

Yeah, how did he die?

Y'know, I could eat a peach for hours

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] manram24 12 years ago

I thought we were talking about the one who fell into the ocean?

Y'know, I could eat a peach for hours

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] pawtrax67 12 years ago

I have a simpler thought. When Harry throws his gun in the back. Have Briggs say. "Three, you always carry three..." referring to his speedloaders.

I would have been very funny if after he knocks out Briggs, he goes into the back, grabs his .44 Magnum.
Then says.

"Actually I carry four...."

Then we could have had a cat and mouse game on the carrier with .357 vs. .44

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] pking-2 9 years ago

Well he did lose his helmet!

Yeah its not that damaging looking of a water crash...

Not to mention I think in general our modern action sensibilities have numbed us to stuff like this so we really expect spectacular demises; doesn't seem quite right when a guy dies merely by falling about 60 feet or whatever it was.

But in the real world, hey stuff happens. People die every day just falling over and hitting their head on the floor. You don't see that occur in movies, yet its feasible in reality. So this is a bit of that, I guess.

Now, this is a signature gun, and that is an optical palm reader.