MovieChat Forums > The Day of the Jackal (1973) Discussion > Killing the forger...

Killing the forger...

posted 18 years ago by nickm2
32 replies | jump to latest

The scene where the Jackal killed the forger...seriously guys: THAT was just about the fastest, most brutally realistic 'hands only kill' I had ever seen in a "European/Non Martial Arts" film from the 1970s--ESPECIALLY as it 'seemed' like a single scene with no edit cuts. I have always been amazed at the speed of Edward Fox's reaction & hand speed...it was almost Bruce Lee like; Did anyone ever discuss the choreography of that scene? Not just the dynamics of the strikes but the actor who played the forger (poor guy, I don't even know his name!)REALLY did a killer job of giving the impression he got his chest cavity caved in & the nape of his neck smashed....

NickM

[–] wmarkley 18 years ago

I agree its a pretty effective scene, and I think Edward Fox is outstanding throughout the whole movie. He usually gets the job done without making a big fuss! :-)

Ronald Pickup played the forger. I've seen him in a few other movies such as "Eleni" and "Wagner" and he always seems to do a good job.

[–] matthew-brown1 18 years ago

Hi also he was in the fourth protocal and never say never again as Edward fox,s assistant.

[–] loveagoodstory 18 years ago

These days he's in Holby City most weeks as Lord Byrne. Got a beard and a Scots accent in that though - I didn't twig him for a while.

[–] hd11gc 17 years ago

I also thought he pulled of a nifty murder of the Anton Rodgers character. Very clean and quick and all you heard was a thud while the Can Can was playing on the telly.

[–] nmitsialis 17 years ago

hd11:

Don't forget the sound of the lobster flopping on the floor...without showing A THING, you knew it ended badly for the guy!

NM

[–] sandandrew 17 years ago

Exactly. A great example of how good writing/direction can be so much more suspenseful than the endless blood and gore of today's thrillers.

A great illustration of why this movie is so good...

[–] artisticengineer 17 years ago

I agree; one of the better scenes of that very good movie.

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 17 years ago

Pickup turned up in "The Mission" as the evil Portuguese ambassador too.

There may be honor among thieves, but there's NONE in politicians!

[–] jd-276 15 years ago

Ronald Pickup also appeared in an episode of "Foyle's War" called "The French Drop".

[–] guusborghs 17 years ago

What about the documents he wanted back, though? He killed the forger, took his keys and threw them on the bed. Then he locked away the body, but after that the scene just ended. It was not revealed if the Jackal took the keys and, if so, what he did with them.

Wasn't it kind of sloppy of the Jackal to kill the forger without trying to retrieve the prints and negatives?

[–] turtletommy 17 years ago

I just watched it again and the forger sealed his doom of course by trying to bargain and hold ransom those documents the Jackal had requested in return, and especially when he stupidly dangled the key in front of him and said no one else knew where the documents were except him and no one ever comes into his workshop unless he invites them in etc etc. So the Jackal dispatched the fool, tossed him in a trunk and locked it. I'm sure he felt the documents and the body were safe from discovery at least until after he had killed De Gaulle and disappeared. So he may have taken the keys but he wasn't going to ever use them- he knew he had time on his side and even with the key how was he ever going to find out where the documents were hidden? It didn't matter anyway. I also think he never had intentions to kill the forger until the idiot tried to change their agreement. If the Jackal was going to kill everyone that helped him in the black market he would have done in the gunsmith too.

[–] jgroub 17 years ago

Supposedly (see other threads on this topic) he did kill the gunsmith in a deleted scene, when he's putting together the gun, right after he asks him for a bullet. I much prefer it the way they have it in the actual movie.

The gunsmith was a consummate professional, and was completely discreet (as opposed to the forger). The Jackal was too, and they had a mutual respect for each other. The Jackal would also need him in the future, so he wouldn't want to kill him. Not only that, the gunsmith was pretty cheap, if I recall correctly. That gun was waaaaay cool, and what did he charge him for it, like 300 pounds or something? A total bargain. You keep a guy like that around.

I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] turtletommy 17 years ago

Yeah I think you're right about that deleted scene. We agree that he and that gunsmith seemed to have a professional relationship and respected each other in a way and the Jackal might need him in the future. Although he told those OAS fellas he was done after that job. Well for what that's worth . For all we know his next job might have been taking out some OAS kingpin for France. The guy had no allegiance to anyone it appeared. (grin)

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 17 years ago

The key word being, supposedly. There's no proof, other than vague memories posted on a message board, that this scene was ever filmed or ever existed.

There may be honor among thieves, but there's NONE in politicians!

[–] jgroub 17 years ago

Well, yeah, it wasn't my memory! Someone else posted something about this. I am just spreading the lie/rumor/memory.

Which gets us right back to what we have in the movie, which is that he didn't kill him. I like that much better, because it is more in keeping in character of both of the characters, who were professionals.

I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 17 years ago

Agreed.

There may be honor among thieves, but there's NONE in politicians!

[–] sharonpullman 17 years ago

No, he didn't kill the gunsmith. If you noticed when he was taking his practice shots, after he used the first 2 bullets, he pulled out the "exploding" bullet the gunsmith gave him wrapped in a paper tissue. Also, in the book, the Jackyl thought of killing the gunsmith but didn't. And the gunsmith had his bases covered by having a letter describing the Jackyl hidden out in his yard so if he wound up dead the Jackyl identity would be blown.

[–] anghmho 13 years ago

No, the Jackal did not kill the gunsmith, either in the book or in a deleted scene. In the book, however, the Jackal convincingly, and chillingly, communicates to the gunsmith that he risks death if he tries to blow the Jackal, advice which the gunsmith not only heeds, but unlike the forger, has made a contingency for. The gunsmith was no dope, and he didn't try to pull the Jackal's chain. The gunsmith was a reliable professional; the forger wasn't. We learned earlier in the film that anyone who killed De Gaulle could never work again (remember?). So the Jackal would never again require the services of the gunsmith. But he had no reason to kill him.

[–] chaosroach 12 years ago

A scene was filmed where the Jackal shoots the Gunsmith with his custom-made gun (right after the Jackal asks for one explosive bullet from the Gunsmith). This scene was cut so that it would lead smoothly into the Jackal's rifle test in the forest, as well as provide a more interesting dynamic with the previous scenes of the Forger (who was trying to blackmail him and got his neck broken for it).

[–] turtletommy 12 years ago

Again, where's the proof of this supposed scene shot for the film showing the Jackal killing the gunsmith? He didn't in the novel. The Jackal DID kill the gunsmith in the Bruce Willis remake. This from the film's IMDb FAQ page:

"Did the Jackal kill the gunsmith?

Within the context of the film, this cannot be proven either way. In the original novel, the Gunsmith was left alive by the Jackal because the Jackal respected him (as opposed to the forger who tried to swindle him) and, perhaps more importantly, because the Gunsmith left evidence that would incriminate the Jackal should he be killed. In the book the Jackal returns to the gunsmith a third time after practicing his rifle, but this scene was not in the film. The second scene between the two ends with the Jackal asking the gunsmith for an explosive bullet and wrapping it in a handkerchief; later, he takes a shell out of the handkerchief while practicing. This implies, but does not prove, that the Jackal did not kill the Gunsmith. Some viewers claim to have seen an apparently deleted sequence involving the Jackal killing the gunsmith while testing his rifle. These scenes, if they exist, were only in early cuts of the film and are not present on any of the existing video, laserdisc, or DVD versions of the film. A similar sequence does appear in the 1997 remake The Jackal, which may be the source of the confusion."

[–] marten1 13 years ago

No, the gun wasn't cheap. The Gunsmith says he will have to charge £1000 for this kind of a job, the form of words indicating it is costlier than standard. He adds "another £100, say £200 for raw materials" Contrast this with the Forger who says "£500 .. (pause) .. £300" for his services (that's where you got the £300 jgroub).

As you say, The Gunsmith is a consummate professional whom The Jackal respects; who asks pertinent questions only to clarify what is required. The Forger is an altogether seedier character, an unpredictable chancer who, on their initial meeting, has to be rebuked for asking about the job and subsequently threatens the whole operation by attempting blackmail. He had to be (as Brendan Gleeson says in "The Guard" 2011) "whacked".

[–] ciphoid_9 17 years ago

[–] turtletommy 17 years ago

He benefited immensely by the forger being so stupid and greedy that's for sure.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] guusborghs 17 years ago

Yeah, good point about the forger admitting that no one ever came to the place. I guess that makes sense.

[–] DC1977 15 years ago

They made The Jackal's punch look quicker by removing one of the frames as he was throwing it.

They did the same thing later when he kills the old landlady.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed how The Jackal's accent suddenly changes when he asks the forger 'Have you forgotten something?'

[–] e76549 15 years ago

It is very believable that a man like the forger would make hazardous gambles for more money but I wonder if he would have risked shaking down the Jackal.

The forger did not know that the Jackal was a professional killer but he must have realized the tall, lean, confident and athletic looking Jackal was potentially very dangerous when crossed. The book mentioned more than once how disturbed some fairly hard boiled characters were by the Jackal's eyes that gave away nothing during several confrontational situations.

[–] muzilon 15 years ago

They made The Jackal's punch look quicker by removing one of the frames as he was throwing it.

They did the same thing later when he kills the old landlady.

There's a rather obvious jump-cut when he raises his hand to clout the old landlady... the killing of the forger was better edited.

In the book, the Jackal thought of killing the gunsmith but didn't. And the gunsmith had his bases covered by having a letter describing the Jackal hidden out in his yard so if he wound up dead the Jackal identity would be blown.

Yeah, the forger was apparently too stupid to have the same safeguards in place as the gunsmith. Oh, and in the book it's made clear that the Jackal did take the forger's keys and threw them down a drain. He was confident it would take at least a month for the body to be found and/or for the police to take any action.

Actually, I thought the forger was Nigel Havers at first - Ronald Pickup has a moustache in everything else I've seen him in.

[–] John-367 14 years ago

The speeded up punch wasn't edited as such, the shot was re-filmed on an optical printer. Before and after the punches every frame was duplicated but in the relevant section some frames, e.g. every other frame, was skipped.
It was commonly known as skip printing. The reverse, where frames were duplicated more than once to slow down the action, was stretch printing.

[–] anghmho 13 years ago

The Jackal's accent changes from what to what? Please explain.

[–] Batsu73 13 years ago

Back to the OP, I was pretty impressed by the set up for the forger kill, the Jackal clearly decides he needs to kill the forger and assesses he won't need a weapon. He distracts the forger with talk of a separate meeting place but the forger then seals his fate by saying no-one comes to his place unless invited. Well if he isn't around to invite anyone…

So the Jackal laughs at the forger's joke and gets him to drop his guard. Then he stuns him with the body shot and knocks him out with the edge of his hand although this is then shown to have been a kill shot. It was better than the killing of Mme De Montpellier which I assume was supposed to be a C-grip choke on the carotid arteries but it would have taken more than a few seconds and she would have struggled a little too.

A great movie for its time and one that stands up to repeated viewings.

[–] franzkabuki 12 years ago

Well it may have been fast, but it´s anything but "realistic". It´s not possible to kill anyone that way - unless you´re in some kind of action fantasy film. A rather ridiculous scene, just like the other one where he kills that stupid woman apparently via supernatural powers. Strange why they felt the need to turn The Jackal into some kind of a superhero in these scenes.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan