Were Swan and the boy killed specifically because JJ went through the burial ground or just because they were vulnerable while he was gone?
shareI don't think it was ever really explained but I got the impression that they were killed because he went through the burial ground. I imagine the Crow came looking for him at his cabin and probably would have tried to kill him too if he had been there.
shareBecause they went through a Crow burial ground.
shareMore precisely Johnson went through the burial ground, Swan and the boy remained at the cabin.
shareHow did he know that his family had been killed? Was it just a sense as to what could happen?
shareThat's the way I took it- Johnson had been warned that crossing the burial ground could lead to dire consequences. So I expect when it dawned on him that he might have started something by going along with the crossing, and knowing his family was back at the cabin, he certainly had a chill going down his back. And his sense was right unfortunately.
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TurtleTommy said:
"That's the way I took it- Johnson had been warned that crossing the burial ground could lead to dire consequences. So I expect when it dawned on him that he might have started something by going along with the crossing, and knowing his family was back at the cabin, he certainly had a chill going down his back. And his sense was right unfortunately."
Yep. :o( Though it really seemed like something more than just a sense or a feeling -- more like a genuine premonition.
Ozy
It was payback for going with the men into the burial ground basically.
shareI was incensed that J went along with the white people. He knew he was putting his family at risk when he crossed the sacred ground of the Crow. He thought he could have it both ways. Noone can.
share"I was incensed that J went along with the white people. He knew he was putting his family at risk when he crossed the sacred ground of the Crow. He thought he could have it both ways. Noone can."
Said with all of the brilliance of Sista Soulja. Hate and killing are justified, depending on your point of view and who is doing the hating and killing.
It is hinted that they were killed because JJ went through the burial ground, but it is never shown that he was spotted there. He was leading a large party of men, how would the Crows know it was him? You are never shown any Indian spying on him. In the book, Mountain Man, He doesn't leave the boy & the woman to lead any rescue party. The indication is that the Indians just happened on to his family. I guess this makes for a more sensible story line for the movie.
Unlike some people, I don't insist that movies follow the same events or plots from whatever book is the inspiration for the movie. I treat them as separate stories and enjoy both.
Johnson realized that he had "sinned" while going through the cemetary and being mesmerized by it. So, it was specifically because he went through their sacred area. One of the best scenes was when Johnson tried to retaliate, but the brave started singing. The singing was obviously something developed from generations of experience in the mountains by the Crow. Johnson suddenly realized that the song represented a wisdom far greater than his own pain and sense of rage.
sharethats not what it all is about
he was singing his death song, he knew jj was going to kill him because he couldn't outrun him, but jj left him alive so he could "tell the tale" so to speak
he knew his family was in trouble because he saw swans blue jacker/vest thinging burning on the crow thing
That's a good point about him knowing his family was in trouble - I must have missed seeing or understanding that was Swan's clothing burning on the Crow pole.
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Well it's based on part of Johnson's life but like a lot of the history of the west what was true, not true or myth is open to debate!
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As I understand it. The real Liver Eating Johnson began his vendetta against the Crow because his wife was killed (she was several months pregnant too, if I remember). I think he had been caught out in the winter was why he wasnt there. Anyway, when he got back and found her body. He ended up fighting and killing Crows for 20 years. I think he ate the livers, supposedly over some superstition that the Crows believed it would curse their spirits to wander forever (not for certain though on that.). And it is unknown how often he did that (he supposedly did it at least once but how much more I dont know). In any case any rumors such as that would make for a good weapon of terror I am sure. After near 20 years he and the Crows made peace and he would eventually consider them as brothers. I think he served for a short time as a sniper in the Civil War too. It should also be mentioned he was supposed to stand at 6 feet tall and around 200 lbs. For that time period that would be huge.
Another interesting tall tale of him was at one time the Blackfeet captured him to deliver to the Crows. He manage to free himself then took out his guard hacked off the man's leg and used it as a club to escape. then later used it as food while on the run. Of course, that story may or may not be true. But, it is always interesting to read. Either way, he must have been seriously hard core if even half the stories are true.
In the movie it's because he went through the burial ground, but that was all made up for the movie. There was no burial ground, and Johnson never went through one. Nobody would place a burial ground across a mountain pass, that's just common sense.
Historically, the Crow killed the real Johnson's pregnant wife, but the reason is unknown. Probably just because they were Crow and he was a white man.
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Watching it right now & I thought the exact same thing - you don't straddle a burial ground across an important mountain pass and then get offended when people go through . Also , as hunters themselves , a trail would be far too important to block , and just stupid . As I understand it (having read 'Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee') the Crows were abit nasty , but not having read about this Guy I really couldn't say why his Family got Killed .
That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .
Obviously because he went through the burial ground. He had left the home to hunt before so it wasn't "just because they were alone"; it couldn't be much more obvious unless they had nailed a sign to the door saying "Yes, internet discussion groups (when you come into existence) they were killed because of the trespassing that is mentioned over & over again as a big NO-NO"
lol....some of these discussion really make me shake my head in wonderment.
I agree with you, but why were they killed? (-:
shareYup - and what he should have done was go on a 20yr vendetta against the damn christians that got them killed. Not the Crow.
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