liver eating johnson?
As good as Redford is in this film it is hard to imagine him as someone who became known as Liver Eating Johnson.
shareJeremiah Johnson was in fact known as "Liver Eating Johnson" because he was rumored to eat the livers of the indian enemies he killed. It was Indian lore that the dead mans strength could be passed on if a part of his body was eaten after battle. Pass the onions and bacon please!
shareHis name was actually John Johnson. He made peace with the Crow and went hunting with them. As the story goes the hunting party ran into some Sioux. After the fight the Crow all looked at Johnson. He went to the nearest Sioux, cut out his liver, took a bite, and spat it out saying," Ain't fit for dogs." The Crow liked that.
shareHis name was actually John Garrison and then he changed it to John JohnsTon. With a T. :)
shareActually, you are part correct. He never really ate the liver, only held it up and pretended to do so. There is an ACCURATE depiction of this in his own words that accompanies his obituary. Read it, very interestinf stuff.
http://www.huntershotsprings.com/updates/liver.html
Thanks for the link, that's really interesting.
shareThe actual guy was reburied in Cody, Wyoming.
shareWARNING !! DO NOT FOLLOW THIS LINK !! It may have changed over the past 6 years - my anti virus program popped up a big 'Warning' page saying the site is not to be trusted.
shareanother reason he ate their livers (while still alive!) is that it is a Native American belief that you cannot pass on to the Happy Hunting Grounds if you are not 'whole'- he'd eat their liver so they could not pass on to the Happy Hunting Ground
shareI seem to remember the movie credits state this film was based on the novel "Mountain Man: a novel about male and female in the early American West" by Vardis Fisher, originally published in 1965. I read it a number of years ago and the move would have to be considered 'loosely based' on the novel, but you can see many of the stories that ended on film. Now maybe Fisher says in a foreward that the character johnson is based on actually lived, I can't recall, but to say that Redford's character is the same as 'Liver eater' Johnson might be a stretch. I could be wrong.
shareI believe it was also partly based on a book called "Crow Killer" but don't remember who wrote it. That's probably where all the vendetta/revenge parts of the script came from. And I could be wrong as well, but know from my experience on these message boards that someone will come along shortly and set me straight, right??
"Go back to your oar, Forty One."
Sadly, the movie WAS based on "Crow Killer" INSTEAD OF THE FACTS.
I am certainly no scholar on the man, but I've been to Red Lodge (where he lived) and Cody (where he is buried), and the consensus is that the recently released book "The Avenging Fury of the Plains, John "Liver-Eating" Johnston, Exploding the Myths - Discovering the Man" by Dennis McLelland is a much more factual account of the man.
It, unfortunately, is a very 'dry' read, is choppily put together and at times seems to go out of its way to debunk "Crow Killer" which is distracting, if not undeserved. But it clears up errors. For example, the Crow vendetta is a myth; Johnston was friends with the Crow.
If you want an entertaining and readable fiction about frontiersmanship, read "Crow Killer". If you want the facts about John (Garrison) Johnston, read McLelland's book.
Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle "Dixie"?
Hey Dances with Weasels,
Thanks for the update. I've noticed quite a few entries from you and they all seem concise and to the point. That's why I go to these boards whenever I'm watching a movie I particularly like. To have a few background facts and some stories about the movie makes for a more rewarding experience, and that's what movies are all about, the experience, right??
I found the same--based on a true story but parts fictionalized for the movie--senario when researching one of my other favorites of this genre, Man in the Wilderness.
Thanks again for the info. If I ever get out west, I'm gonna check those places out. And your signature line, one of the best quotes from Josey Wales (and there are quite a few in that movie, I reckon...spit). Classic!!
"Go back to your oar, Forty One."
Hey rockcairn69 (cool name!)
I try to stay concise but sometimes I ramble. Anyway, yeah IMDb is awesome. I spend hours here getting 'background facts and some stories'. I enjoy that as much as the movie sometimes!
Hope you get out west someday.
Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle "Dixie"?
rockcairn69:
I found the same--based on a true story but parts fictionalized for the movie--senario when researching one of my other favorites of this genre, Man in the Wilderness.
Man in the Wilderness, from what I understand, was loosely structured from the story of Hugh Glass, another mountain man with a story as fantastic and unbelievable as John Johnston. Read Frederick Manfred's "Lord Grizzly" for an entertaining fictionalization (making use of what facts it could) of his exploits.
Dances_With_Weasels:
Are you telling me that there was NEVER any vendetta waged by Johnston on the Crow Indians? I read "Crow Killer" with much skepticism, but it would seem that that detail is a bit much to fabricate, seeing as how that is what Johnston's legend is squarely predicated on.
"...if that was off, I'd be whoopin' your ass up and down this street." ~ an irate Tarantino share
It was based on Vardis Fisher's Mountain Man and not loosely. Its the same story. He gets the boy from the crazy woman after he buries her dead family for her and builds her a shelter. And he gets a wife the same way as portrayed in the movie. And the boy and his wife are killed and he goes on a vendetta. Same story.
I dont' think Mountain Man was a widely read book and that's why everybody credits this character as Liver Eating Johnson. But the plot of this movie is the same as the Vardis Fisher story you read.
Mountain Man by Vardis Fisher. Great book I recommend it.
Not that this is as freaky as nibbling on a humans liver but I know guys who drink the blood from fresh deer kill for the vitamins/health benefits. They do this right at the kill while field dressing the deer. And this takes place only 40 miles north of NYC.
I have the feeling the real JJ was a good self promoter :-) like Ozzy or Alice Cooper. When Cooper tossed a live chicken off the stage expecting it to fly away, it dropped into the audience who then promptly ripped the live chicken to pieces. The press/headlines reported it as Cooper killed the chicken on stage as part of his act. Frank Zappa called Alice about the incident and Cooper immediately denied having anything to do with killing the chicken. Zappa supposedly told Cooper 'Whatever you do, don't deny it !" as it was free publicity - something the band sorely needed more of. No such thing as 'bad publicity' (for rock bands at least). Mountain men/bar room brawler types often enjoy the stories being told about their exploits - true or not 'cause it adds to their 'mystique'/rep of someone not to be messed with and builds 'legend'/local folk lore. Of course I have no idea of what the real JJ did or didn't do but this kind of scenario wouldn't surprise me at all.