I just finished re-reading the book. And Vito originally had only 2 Caporegimes, but with Sonny joining his father in his teens, he later also had his own regime which was disbanded and split when he died by Vito himself (Vito did this to show the 5 Families that he was not out for revenge to ensure Michael's safe return home). So if Sonny had his own soldiers, then he would also be a caporegime no?
Captain is just another term for a Capo or a Caporegime, and Fredo was no Capo. It was clear early on that he did not have the brains nor the heart to be one.
With the death of Tessio otoh, Michael creates another secret caporegime under Rocco Lampone, under the noses of the 5 families and uses this new regime to take out his enemies, with the help of both Clemenza, and Al Neri (his new Luca Brasi). Neri eventually becomes an Underboss by the third film.
Hagen was kept out of the loop because of 2 reasons:
-he was not a War Time Consiglieri and both Vito and Michael were gunning on revenge and getting rid of all their enemies (like Michael said, 'who else would be a better Consiglieri than my father?')
-they knew they had a traitor inside the family (and though I doubt they suspected Hagen), they were being cautious
-I don't remember Hagen being angry with the secret regime Michael created in the film, but in the book he wasn't pissed, he guessed it and told Michael which Michael replied that Vito knew Hagen would figure it out
Paulie Gatto was a leutenant and would never have been made Capo or a Captain until Clemenza passes or until he proves himself to whoever is the Don: Vito or Michael
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DamienThorn1976 (74)
7 years ago
I agree about Sonny. Think he was essentially just a glorified Capo. And when Vito got shot, Clemenza and Tessio had too much Respect (Fear) for Vito to go for a power struggle individually or together. I remember the book, when Vito first consumed his power he split Tessio and Clemenza to control opposite ends of the city, for many reasons but mainly so they couldn't conspire against him.
I always though Fredo was basically royalty. Given a ceremonial position that has little to no authority over others but is respected because of who he shares his last name with. Shown by the fact that when he's sent to Nevada, Moe Green walks all over him.
I remember Hagen getting wind of a secret regime under Lampone and confronting Michael and Vito about it in a deleted scene. Vito praises Tom and says he knew he'd catch on but that it was essential he had no part in what was to happen.
I also think Tom wasn't included because he was at the meeting where Vito gave his word that it wouldn't be him personally who takes revenge against the five families. Suppose giving his word meant Tom was part of the agreement. Vito was a man of his word as they say.
Think Paulie was a top button man. Essentially Clemenzas deputy I suppose. Teaching him the ropes in order to replace him at some point. But when he snitches, Lampone replaces him.
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vicky_lc2001 (1907)
7 years ago
QUOTE:
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remember the book, when Vito first consumed his power he split Tessio and Clemenza to control opposite ends of the city, for many reasons but mainly so they couldn't conspire against him.
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^^^I've read this book 4/5x now but strangely enough, this is the only time I took note that Vito separated them to make sure they don't colude and rise up against him. It was smart too because look at what Tessio did when he thought he should take over instead of Michael?
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DamienThorn1976 (74)
7 years ago
I posted a question on the IMdb boards about Tessio and how I wondered, would he have betrayed Sonny in the same way he betrayed Michael?
I didn't think he would have. Had Sonny not been massacred The Corleones would likely still be the major family and Barazini would be much less influential therefore Tessio wouldn't have conspired.
Also the time between Vitos retirement and death is about 2/3 years in the book I think. In the movie it seems closer.
In that 2/3 years The Barzini family would have muscled a lot of their territory. And Tessio would've been more and more trapped. As Micahel says "Tessio was always smarter".
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vicky_lc2001 (1907)
7 years ago
That's a very interesting point. Sonny may have been a hot head and not as smart as either Vito or Michael but he was said to be a good enough strategist and Tessio was familiar with Sonny. Sony had made his bones as a teenager whereas Michael was underestimated like Vito originally was as he was quiet, distant, a College kid, and encouraged their underestimation to his advantage.
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DamienThorn1976 (74)
7 years ago
Exactly what I was going to argue as well.
At the start of the film, you can clearly tell Sonny is in defacto charge around the wedding scene with Clemenza and Gatto following his lead.
Sonny is obviously superior to Tessio and Clemenza, and has done enough before the start of the film to gain their loyalty and respect, Michael done nothing until killing the police captain and Sollozo.
So I think Tessio would've felt less stepped on and it would've been more of a natural transition of power had Sonny been the Don.
Clemenza would likely thought about a coup against Michael but didn't have the know how or the nerve to try it.
Plus Clemenza was considered more of a personal family member than Tessio considering Clemenza was Sonny's Godfather, hence him personally assassinating Carlo Rizzi. Not sure if Tessio was Michael's, maybe he felt a little left out sometimes.
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vicky_lc2001 (1907)
7 years ago
But it was good that they weeded out Tessio because although he may not have initially betrayed Sonny, if Sonny started losing the war against the Barzinis/Tataglias/Sollozzo, I think he would've turned on him too.
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DamienThorn1976 (74)
7 years ago
I agree. Sonny would have crumbled under the pressure of war against Barzini. And Tessio would have likely jumped ship.
I also wondered what Sonny meant by wanting Michael by his side when he was talking about killing the Captain and Sollozo.
Maybe Michael to replace him as Underboss when Sonny replaces Vito?
What place would Michael have if Sonny lived?
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vicky_lc2001 (1907)
7 years ago
Hmmm... Maybe Sonny wanted Michael as an underboss if Sonny was the Don. But if Michael was truly involved and Sonny was alive, I think there would've been a problem between the brothers because Michael clearly is meant to be the Don. Sonny otoh is meant to be the underboss/a caporegime.
But I think Michael's joining was instigated by 3 things:
-the threat on his father's life
-the killing of Sonny
-the killing of his wife
I feel like Michael would not have completely embraced his father's life without all 3 happening to him, it was then that he wanted to be 'a son to my father.'
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DamienThorn1976 (74)
7 years ago
Very interesting about the three conditions.
You take one out of these three, it's doubtful he'd have the ruthlessness to carry out his end plan.
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vicky_lc2001 (1907)
7 years ago
I guess I'm basing that it on the book, after Michael wakes up from the coma he was in when his wife died:
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Both men seemed to sigh with relief. Don Tommasino lifted a glass from a nearby table and drank from it an amber fluid that jolted his head up. Dr. Taza sat on the bed and said almost absently, “You know, you’re a widower. That’s rare in Sicily.” As if the distinction might comfort him.
Michael motioned to Don Tommasino to lean closer. The Don sat on the bed and bent his head. “Tell my father to get me home,” Michael said. “Tell my father I wish to be his son.”
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