is sean guilty of setting up his friend - Giù la testa (1972) Discussion

[–] kevin_davis68 18 years ago

Yeah I saw this idea proposed on the DVD extras. Makes for a deeper understanding to the film. However, I dont believe so. In the scene when Sean tells Viellga on the train, " I dont Judge you, I did that only once in my life". He feels guilt for killing his friend (Nolan) even though his friend betrayed them to the British. He judged him when he shot him.

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[–] christomacin 17 years ago

Or perhaps the jugdement Coburn made was personal and not political. The "Sean is really John, John is really Sean" was a real mind-blower for me, similar to the "Deckard is a replicant" debate amongst Blade Runner fans. An interesting take on the trasnferrance of guilt, personality, identity, whatever. It really floors you and makes you re-evalaute the film based upon this crucial piece of speculation. In a real sense "it changes everything". I personally am not sure I buy it yet, however.

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[–] raifsnid 17 years ago

I don't buy this idea. FIrst of all, it's an oversimplification.

The point of the girl in the plot is to act as the glue between Sean and Nolan. She demonstrates the closeness of their relationship. I also think she acts as a metaphor for the revolution that they both share a passion for. But when Nolan walks into the bar with the officers we know that it is the ultimate betrayal for Sean, because they were so close that they even shared the same woman.

Besides, Sean shoots Nolan. It's not like he has him killed, as you posed in your question.

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[–] bstar56 17 years ago

Sir Christopher Frawling in his book on Leone quotes Leone as saying the threesome represented "free love and libertarianism". That doesn't sound like jealousy to me.

I don't buy this Mallory killed his friend out of jealousy crap for a second,

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[–] Sucker_that_Ducked 17 years ago

Sean Nolan is the friend of John's. Sean is not the main character. His name is John Mallory.

John did kill him out of jealousy. You can see in the last flashback of the movie. As soon as Sean starts kissing the girl, you can see John's smile start to fade. Also, Morricone's score changes. This is a cue that John's happiness has ended.

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[–] kriege10 17 years ago

Sean is not Nolan's given name. It is never mentioned in the film or script. Mallory's given name is Sean or John. He probably uses John in Mexico because few Mexicans would have been familiar with the name Sean anyway, while they would have heard of John.

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[–] EyeNixon 17 years ago

Also your comment on his smile "fading" is utterly irrelevant because while it does fade he immediately springs it back up again. JUST like his companion was doing in the car and while watching near the tree.

That was just the actor doing his own interpretation.
You're reading too much into it, there WAS no jealousy. In fact, I don't understand why you just can't understand that John shot his companion, *WHO IS NOT NAMED SEAN, IGNORE THE IDIOT ON THE EXTRAS* because he was forcibly coerced into betraying his fellow revolutionists to the British.

John obviously felt betrayed by this, even though his friend appears battered and bruised.

There is a certain amount of simplicity in human emotion that seems difficult for most people to understand. It's perplexing. John saw his friend pointing out the other fellows, saw his friend consider HIM for a bit, then NOD. It's at that point that John pulls out his weapon and kills the officers.

He saw that even though his friend contemplated giving him away, he did it in the end. Therefore, John saw it as even worse of a betrayal as his friend actually THOUGHT about it, but in the end decided to reveal him anyway.
I don't know about you, but that seems a bit cold to me. It's easy to see that John simply reacted in anger and gave his friend the same cold contemplation on whether or not to kill him before he did.

Tit for tat, jealousy had nothing to do with it.

BUY MY MUFFINS YOU STUPID *beep* http://imdb.com/title/tt0384537/board/thread/56435861

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[–] bstar56 17 years ago

exactly!! end the 'killed him out of jealousy' theory now!!

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[–] alphaboo 14 years ago

Exactly. John/Sean says to the doctor when they are on the train I only judged someone once with deep regret in his voice He tells the doctor he will not judge him but he wants the doctor to know that he knows what the doctor did. He shoots Nolan(name only appears in the script)in the bar for betraying the irish cause even though he was beat into confessing. It has nothing to do with the girl, the girl represents how close nolan and sean were. It is meant to mirror sean's relationship with the doctor and the change in sean.

Besides how do you set someone up by allowing them to get caught by the police and hoping he betrays you to the police after torture so you can shoot him--A wee bit over elaborate don't you think?

Also there is a hint of Nolan nodding as if he wants Sean to kill him. Sean maybe even kills him as an act of Mercy knowing what would happen to Nolan if he ever got caught again since Nolan was already marked as a terrorist, but that a whole different discussion but something worth considering.

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[–] tennismenace 17 years ago

Yes, he killed him out of jealousy.

If you ask me, he should have killed her instead. After all, she looked quite willing to kiss Sean. I wonder why?

- The Truth is Out There, and I found it in Christ!

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[–] bstar56 17 years ago

they had a healthy threesome. Sergio Leone says in his autobiography that the threesome represents "libertarianism and free love." Mallory killed him because he had a gun in his hand and his friend had just named him as a terrorist to the police!

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[–] GeneticSugarKane 17 years ago

The time when he was banging his friend and their shared girl was a happy one for Mallory, so that's why he chooses to remember it as he lays dying. It's far more pleasant to think of the three-way than it is to think back on his friend's betrayal yet again.

~Spirit desire, spirit desire, we will fall.~

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[–] kojidimitrije 14 years ago

I personally do not believe in jealousy theory. It is just too simple and isn't in any way following the spirit of the movie. John/Sean's belief in revolution as a difference maker fades slowly through the movie. The killing of the civilians, the terror that kept going even after they got rid of the "uniforms" and the way they got rid of them has an effect on John and makes him an unbeliever. Leone is a master storyteller and a simple unrelated love story doesn't sound believable in his case. This is, among all, a movie about friendship. Flashback at the very ending is just a manifest of friendship and it's misinterpretation lowered the rating of the movie in my opinion. Leone's late work (yes, including this movie of course) is beyond brilliant and will never be matched in any way.

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