Critical plot point missed by many viewers of Duck, You Sucker

But why was John smiling then when Sean was kissing his woman?

Why would Mallory have gone to the police to inform if he were wanted for murder? If he had, why would the police have let him go? If, again, they had let him go, why would they need Nolan to point out to them who Mallory was, since they already knew him? If they were really looking for Nolan and not Mallory, why would they have needed to beat Nolan to get him to tell them where Mallory could be found? And why would they have gone after him at all if they had the man they were really looking for? How can one assume that a murderer would inform on someone who was guilty of nothing worse than handing out subversive newspapers? How could it be anything but vice versa? Why do you call Mallory and Nolan "rivals"? And why do you think Mallory lost his girlfriend to Nolan? (The flashback seems to mean that they were both sleeping with her and all three were content with the situation.) Why does Mallory need a motivation to run away to Mexico other than the fact that he is being caught in a police dragnet? Why do you assume that Mallory would not have been haunted by killing his friend unless he had turned him over to the police first?

I don't think John/Coburn was the traitor at all. Just look at Coburn's expression on the reflective mirror in the bar. It's not one of guilt-->self-defense look. It's more of an anger/disdain for Sean for selling out. Otherwise, if it was just self-defense then he wouldn't need to have killed Sean as he already have shot and killed the cops. He made a decision to kill his friend there in disgust and shuns everything from that moment on as he says with utter conviction later on in the movie my favorite line in the movie,"When I started out I believed in many things...oh all of it...now all I believe in is dynamite." He is a man completely disillusioned. He can't even believe in himself anymore.

I suppose one can say the anger in his face was because of jealousy in losing his girlfriend but you can't look that angry after witnessing your friend get beat up like that by the cops.

I used to think John's character was beautiful, full of ideals and conviction and never waivering. But the fact of the matter is that in that pub sequence he can't put all the blame on Sean. John at that moment, had he been in Sean's position might have been even more cowardly than Sean. John had not been battle tested at that point. He is young, fiery, full of passion but can't see the whole picture. He did Sean wrong out of ignorance and lost his best friend...and ultimately took himself out of what was important in life. But he completely redeems himself in America and sacrifices his own neck for Steiger. He has become a beautiful character. When he blows himself in the end, he is a man at peace with himself, no more anger, feelings of hatred/betrayal. Final flashback is him remembering the good times and even the time he felt angry/ jealous at Sean/his girlfriend and reflecting how he has come a long way from that young jealous dude as he smiles now before he blows himself up.

Kinda makes me see everything differently when I think about it like that, but I'm not so sure that you're right...

Liberty Valance is the toughest guy south of the Picket Wire, next to ME

Actually, the intended plot is still A. I think you missed the point.
The resentment of John towards his friends causes him to shoot him in the bar.
When John tells Villega "He already judge once", he's talking about judging his friend's betrayal and shooting him.

The final flashback does show something important, but it doesn't change the plot!

I agree with everything you said. If anyone disagrees, they are wrong. :)




- The Truth is Out There, and I found it in Christ!

Watched the original cut - I'm going to refer to 'John' as Sean (which is the same thing, Sean is Irish for John) and the friend as Nolan based on the credits.

I'm sorry but you're fisting the Muse's anus and coming out with *beep*

The flashback shows Sean kissing the girl first, then Nolan. Coburn's big freakin white teeth are very prominent and even when the picture goes out of focus, you can still make out a big a$$ed buck toothed smile to the very last second.

You say that this is a reward of close inspection, but ironically, closer inspection to other scenes reveal more, they reveal the truth.

The real point of this flashback is apparent with close attention to the previous flashbacks. The first flashback we see pans out from the mole on Nolan's head (foreshadowing his bullet injury at that very spot later on) and shows the three driving in a car. Their clothing is the same as the last flashback, so the tree where they kiss is their destination that they're driving to in the car, so the last flashback fits in (chronologically) as the second flashback, and the second flashback we see in the movie is of Nolan handing out copies of 'The Patriot' or whatever it was - and Sean looks surprised and a little taken aback and unsure. SO Nolan is the one who thought it would be a good idea to get involved in the revolution, and he brings Sean into it. Third flashback shows the betrayal. The pub is obviously a 'hot spot' for revolutionary activity, so they expect to find several revolutionaries there and they do. Nolan points out at least two other people before getting to Sean, which he's not sure about. Now if the cops knew he was a revolutionary already, why would Sean be focused in suspense waiting to see if Nolan is going to betray him? He ostensibly was let go by the police after 'informing' (which would be the ticket to his own freedom) so why would he then don a gun and go hang out at the local headquarters of the revolution he just betrayed? Nolan was the betrayer, this is also made clear when we see the fourth flashback, the one where he actually shoots his friend. When he is thinking about this, he's on a train, and he's trying to get Villega to stock up the boiler engine and become one of the workers of the revolution, not just a thinker. He wants him to work towards his own death like so many others had. Then he has an epiphany. He realizes that he could have left his friend alive and this is the source of his regret and self-hatred. He says "I did that (judged) only once in my life" referring to his judgement and summary execution of his friend. Why would he 'judge' his friend if he (coburn) was the traitor? After his epiphany his rage for Villega has dimmed and he says (with disgust) "Oh, just close yer eyes and jump!" So he's not willing to take out another life just for revenge, but he still despises Villega. Here's another thing I think people missed. There's the bridge scene, then the grotto sequence, and then there is Villega's betrayal. But he actually betrayed before the trucks in the rain scene because he's the one that told Gunther Ruiz about the hidden base in the grotto. That's how Juan's family gets killed (among others) and why Sean is so disgusted with him, because he caused the death of his NBFF's family.

So we have a dying man at the end, his gut shot out, and sitting in the middle of a battleground, the consequence of a chain of events that started with his friend Nolan getting into the revolution. His dying thoughts are of a happier time, THE happiest time maybe, BEFORE he was even involved in a revolution (this is why I pointed out the chronology of the flashbacks). When he was obviously a well to do bourgeois (how else could they afford a car in the beginning of the 20th century?) a very liberal one, of the type that evolved after Victorian England, a man with a freer sexual sensibility and a zest for life, all of this is apparent in the flashback. The point of it is; he wasn't just betrayed by a friend, a good friend, or a friend-in-arms. He was betrayed by a BROTHER who he would share anything with (and did - the girl, Nolan's patriotic zeal) without reservation or judgement. Ostensibly, he loved Nolan more than the girl, and THAT'S why Sean is drinking himself to death, untouchable regret.

A great F'in movie, though
.-'-.-'-.-Once it was death for prophet - now it's death for profit-.-'-.-'-.

Bump