MovieChat Forums > The French Connection (1971) Discussion > What am I missing here? I actually like ...

What am I missing here? I actually like Popeye

posted 8 years ago by mammamia1216
20 replies | jump to latest

So this 21-year-old girl just watched THE FRENCH CONNECTION for the first time, and I feel like this is one of those weird movies where the director WANTED me to see things one way but I actually went in the complete opposite direction. Thanks, '70s movies! Agendas and no complexity!

Watched this with my dad and brothers, twice - the second time with the commentary, and there's one quote the director said that really bothered me:

“That’s really the theme of the film, the thin line between policeman and criminal. The cop who has the badge is basically an obsessive, brutalizing racist, and the narcotics smuggler is a gourmet, he dresses well, he loves his wife, he’s in every way imaginable a charming human being.”

So basically, Popeye is uncouth and PC-non-compliant, so we are supposed to HATE him, but the actual bad guy is suave, has manners, and is better looking, so we're supposed to overlook the fact that he's a ruthless drug kingpin and just be dandy that he's funneling drugs into our country?

The ending doesn't bother me - in fact, I think it's one of the most memorable things about the movie. Real life is complex, and it's hard to identify "winning" and "losing," so the uncertainty I found to be really effective. It seems especially topical nowadays. But I don't know what to make of this attitude where we're supposed to look at men like Popeye and shake our self-righteous heads when we have no earthly idea what men like him have seen, what they know, and what they have to live with because of their jobs (which involve public safety).

So please, someone tell me what I'm missing here. Or is this movie, brilliant as it is, a time capsule of a very bleak, confused time in our societal identity?

[–] Degree7 8 years ago

I never took it as the film was forcing you to hate Popeye Doyle, it simply shows him for all his imperfections. He is obsessed to a fault, and you get the feeling that he's not so much pursuing the case out of honour or duty, but for mostly self-serving reasons. The ending paints his decisions as leading to a bleak, emptiness.

Popeye Doyle is actually quite a complex character, imo, he is not very likeable at all, and yet compelling as an anti-hero, both good at his job and.... well, not so good at it.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

[–] mammamia1216 8 years ago

I get what you're saying, but it's hard for me to see him as an anti-hero. When I think of an anti-hero, images of Clint Eastwood characters come to mind (High Plains Drifter, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, characters just a bit more self-serving). Popeye is still a cop, still charged with protecting the public good, and while he definitely is obsessive, I tend to see it as the bleak, emptiness of '70s society playing a part in making him what he is.

There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly west

[–] wrfarley 8 years ago

One of the things that makes Popeye likeable is Gene Hackman's stellar performance. He makes Popeye an identifiable human being. A man who loves his job and is good at it. He gives the detective a sort of impish charm and vitality. The fact that he loses as much as wins makes him all the more sympathetic. Who hasn't stamped their feet and rubbed their hands together on a freezing cold day? Who hasn't gotten bored waiting for something to happen while sitting their car? That he's a specialist in his field makes him unique intriguing and that he uses his authority sometimes in a brutal way makes us admire him, sometimes for the wrong reason. Let's face it, most of us love it when Doyle storms into Roy's Bar and tears the place apart. His tough guy act of commanding and controlling bigger and stronger men is something most of wish we could do at our own jobs.

The real Popeye was much the same, but those who knew Eddie Egan claim that he was a charmless lout, who spouted racial epithets constantly, drank to excess and framed innocent people. Hackman found a way inside the character that showed what Egan was about, but also gave it his own personal touch that makes the character vital to this very day.

[–] mammamia1216 8 years ago

EXACTLY. Well said.

[–] Little Caesar 8 years ago

The 70's were cynical but I wouldn't call them bleak. I was a child & that was the best time of my life. Films weren't made to be summer blockbusters that everyone goes to see. That approach wouldn't really come about until JAWS & then STAR WARS. Films were a bit more personal I think.

The big difference between now & then is the amount of entertainment intended for everyone. Back then, if you were a kid, you had a handful of movies each year & Saturday morning cartoons. That's all the entertainment Hollywood provided. Now, you have a comic book movie every summer! I got off track here I know.

Gonna miss these boards!!

[–] mammamia1216 8 years ago

That's what both of my parents say, and they were teenagers in the '70s. It's their opinion that the best music came out in the 1970s, and I'm inclined to agree. Much better than the drivel we have now.

I got the word "bleak" from the abundance of movies that seemed to be just for adults and that seemed to deal with really downer subjects. I think it was Friedkin himself that said a lot of his movies commented on the superficiality and/or "emptiness" of a society trying to deal with the aftermath of all the 'change' and this and that from the '60s. What JAWS started, I think, was the trend toward the high-concept, general-audiences film (and I don't mean "G" rated; just not 'adults-only' or 'kids-only').

[–] wrfarley 8 years ago

I don't know if the era was better. Powerful and personal films still get made, but I think the previous poster makes a strong point that there is so much entertainment that sometimes we get lost in it. I can recall seeing THE GODFATHER and THE FRENCH CONNECTION months and months after their original release. A hit film meant more than box office then, it would become something of a social phenomenon. I'm sure I saw THE FRENCH CONNECTION at least three times in its initial release.

[–] Little Caesar 8 years ago

i think there are great personal films made today but they don't receive the same attention. Big effects heavy popcorn flicks dominate now. It's how Hollywood was pre-70's. Eventually, creative filmmakers came along that did smaller films that spoke to a sizable audience studios saw began to invest in the Coppalas, Friedkins, and Scorceses of the world. I'm a big film buff and love movies going back to the silent era and the 70's is a great period for film.

This was a good discussion! Don't go away IMDB Boards!

[–] Little Caesar 8 years ago

There were no clear cut "good guys" in 70's movies. TAXI DRIVER, GODFATHER, FRENCH CONNECTION, all feature pretty shady characters. I've always thought the upbeat ROCKY partially won oscar because it was so different.

[–] turtletommy 8 years ago

Big effects heavy popcorn flicks dominate now. It's how Hollywood was pre-70's.

So what are a few pre-70s examples of what you mean? While the 70's certainly had some very good films small and large it also had quite a few "big effects heavy popcorn flicks dominate" such as the Airport films, Earthquake, Towering Inferno, STAR WARS etc.

[–] kenburke (2372) 5 years ago

You said it! The movie was spot on in its depiction of 1970s New York life.

[–] yatzo376 (7717) 5 years ago

Excellent post.
I think Freidkin in the commentary was fascinated with the dichotomy between the cops and the French bad guys.

[–] ecarle (14979) 5 years ago

“That’s really the theme of the film, the thin line between policeman and criminal. The cop who has the badge is basically an obsessive, brutalizing racist, and the narcotics smuggler is a gourmet, he dresses well, he loves his wife, he’s in every way imaginable a charming human being.” -- William Friedkin.

--

Yes, but...

The film begins with the brutal murder(shot to the face) of a French cop by the assassin hired by the "elegant gourmet who loves his wife"("Ugly business, but it had to be done," the crime boss says.) Later, the gourmet sends the same assassin to kill Popeye, which leads to the car/train chase -- and the assassin shoots, wounds and maybe kills innocent passengers on the train.

In short, the French guys are bad guys. Stilll, in the 70's downbeat tradition, in the end, some are arrested and serve lots of time, some serve minimal time, and the gang boss gets away. Popeye manages to kill the assassin, but he's the only bad guy to die as I recall. And of course Popeye kills someone else and its...a problem.

Friedkin's comment about the thin line between cop and criminal also became the poster tag line for Dirty Harry, which came out within 2 months of The French Connection: "Dirty Harry and the homicidal killer. Harry's the one with the badge."

This was a political time in America in which not only were the studios catering to the "under 30 crowd"(as they do today) but considering that crowd as "anti-police." So cop thrillers like Bullitt, The French Connection, and Dirty Harry tended to bend to anti-police sentiment in different ways. McQueen's Frank Bullitt was a good man, not at all like the borderline sociopaths played by Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman. Still, McQueen was a "hip cop, up against the Establishment" as represented by the slimy politician played by Robert Vaughn and one of McQueen's bosses(the "bad bureaucratic one," he has a good boss, too.)

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 5 years ago

CONT

3 years down the road from " Bullitt" and with the R-rating in place, The French Connection and Dirty Harry were rougher movies than Bullitt, and they featured "meaner" cops. It was interesting, though: Bullitt and The French Conenction (from the same producer) were "paired" thanks to their great car chases; The French Connection and Dirty Harry were "paired" by their same year of release and "mean cop" anti-heroes(not CROOKED cops -- just mean cops.)

But despite Friedkin's comments about the cop/crook thin line, and the Dirty Harry tagline ("Harry's the one with the badge") audiences were, I think, very much on the side of both these cops. Dirty Harry especially -- his foe was a sadistic psychopath who killed women and children; but also Popeye, shown to be suffering out on the cold streets and eating a hot dog while his elegant foe dined out on bad drug money earned with murder as part of the business.

[–] ecarle (14979) 5 years ago

The 70's were cynical but I wouldn't call them bleak. I was a ; that was the best time of my life. Films weren't made to be summer blockbusters that everyone goes to see. That approach wouldn't really come about until JAWS ; then STAR WARS. Films were a bit more personal I think.

---

Though I sometimes think modern-day critics "overhype" the movies of the 70s' -- along with the "personal" classics there were a lot of clunky, corporate films like Airport '75 and Earthquake -- it was a great time to go to the movies, and to be young and to feel things change "right before your eyes."

"Star Wars" was a galvanic change - the special effects were so "new" and good; the ending was happy(a lot of the endings of 1970's films WEREN'T) and heck, the movie even had "WARS" and on screen, in the title(Vietnam had made war movies a rather downbeat subject)

"Jaws," coming two years earlier, felt a bit more connected to the grimmer movies of the early 70's. Yes the shark goes BOOM at the end just like the Death Star at the end of Star Wars, but a heroic anti-hero(Quint) is gorily killed. The shark also eats a young woman and a little boy.

But there was also the heavy political subplot of a Mayor and a town council who don't want to tell the public about the shark, don't want to close their beaches. With police chief Brody (Hey, there, its Roy Scheider from THE FRENCH CONNECTION!) caught in the middle, and people dying because of municipal malfeasance which -- this being the "murky" 70's -- is meant to save the town's businesses from going bankrupt("We need summer dollars.")

Still, yes, Jaws was a big summer blockbuster based on excitement, screaming, and seeing it again and again. The target audience was also somewhat younger than the adult crowds sought for The French Connection and Dirty Harry.

Jaws had one foot in the "early seventies" but Star Wars really changed everything: special effects films built like theme park rides and targeted to pre-teens.

[–] Adam60z (3766) 5 years ago

I thought FC2 was better because it was in France. FC1 should have been called the New York Connection!

[–] WhaChaChaKing (23) 5 years ago

Gene Hackman could play a child rapist crackhead that strangles puppies and bashes them over old peoples heads and he'd still be likable. He's just a charming and charismatic guy, has nothing to do with the character. The character himself has basically no redeeming qualities.

[–] kenburke (2372) 5 years ago

Of COURSE you like Popeye! He does the right thing and could care less what John Q. Public thinks about it.

[–] liscarkat (18410) 4 years ago

I never thought that I wasn't supposed to like him. Popeye gets criminals off the street, which makes life safer and is all I ask of a cop. I don't care if he bends the rules or says un-woke words.

[–] TheArgentinian (7072) a year ago

You like racist cops that abuse their power? Are you a republican?