MovieChat Forums > THX 1138 (1971) Discussion > Funny what George Lucas has become...

Funny what George Lucas has become...


Considering his first film was partly about (and against) mindless consumerism. Now he spends millions adding CG gravity defying mutant monkeys to his old movies and milks the Star Wars cow in every possible imaginable way. Way to stick with your convictions, fatso!

I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!

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What irks me is hearing him state in the THX commentary that he would love to get back to making small low budget type films.
It seems to me with his billions he'd be in a perfect spot to try something new and not have to worry about whether it fails or not.
Unfortunately it hasn't happened yet.

Star Wars is obviously his life's obsession, and films like THX and American Graffiti have kind of fallen by the wayside.
I have never seen three films (oops, six I mean) run through the ringer in every conceivable fashion as these have.
Some of the best times I ever had watching those films was on VHS back in the mid 80s....after the original hype had died down and well before countless rereleases on VHS, Beta, laserdisc, DVD, CED, and whatever other format you can think of, not to mention the endless amounts of merchandise, special editions, etc, etc.
I still enjoy those films, but not like I used to....NO movie series can live up to that type of hype.

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Here's a thought that just occurred to me. Suppose he never was good. Suppose Lucas was always a mediocre talent, but in the early years he happened to team up with a great crew, take advice from his mentors (apparently Coppola was his buddy back then), draw on influences of the time--everything from 2001: A Space Odyssey to Jimi Hendrix, or maybe he just plain got lucky?

In the decades that followed, perhaps he was never able to draw from that same well. Instead he thought he could do it all himself which he did, proving his commercial & business success, but he would never be able to achieve the art & poetry of his earliest works.

That would explain why, instead of giving us anything really new, he's been stuck on Star Wars for the last 30 years, tuning & tweaking & remaking every damn scene because he lacks the creativity to move on.

Well, that's the long psychological analysis. Perhaps the truth is that he's just plain fat & those black turtlenecks are cutting off the circulation to his brain.

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I think you've said it incredibly well and politely enough as to not be insulting.

If you watch the documentaries about Lucas's background he didn't become a film student until his junior year at USC and before that he was majoring in mythology, so all of his creative work is grounded in mythological themes. Taking this further, it can be said that Lucas is simply telling the same story over and over again. I would argue that THX is unique because of Lucas's methods and the way he made the film as well the help he got from the culture with Vietnam and the Nixon administration, he made something that "fit" well enough for the time.

All of Star Wars is the same basic myth of good versus evil and characters finding their way back to what matters most and being able to present that myth using technology may be the only real talent Lucas has and ever had: being able to tell a story using the tools of filmmaking incredibly well, for the time.

At one point Lucas was going to do Apocalypse Now before handing to Coppola...I dare not think of what Apocalypse would have been had Lucas tried to do it.

But your main point, roop, is exactly right: Lucas told a good story at time when it could be told well and received well, he never had any real talent, just the innovation of telling a specific story with available tools based on easily understood myths.

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Now his work is grounded in Kener toys.

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If you watch the documentaries about Lucas's background he didn't become a film student until his junior year at USC and before that he was majoring in mythology, so all of his creative work is grounded in mythological themes. Taking this further, it can be said that Lucas is simply telling the same story over and over again. I would argue that THX is unique because of Lucas's methods and the way he made the film as well the help he got from the culture with Vietnam and the Nixon administration, he made something that "fit" well enough for the time.

All of Star Wars is the same basic myth of good versus evil and characters finding their way back to what matters most and being able to present that myth using technology may be the only real talent Lucas has and ever had: being able to tell a story using the tools of filmmaking incredibly well, for the time.

At one point Lucas was going to do Apocalypse Now before handing to Coppola...I dare not think of what Apocalypse would have been had Lucas tried to do it.

But your main point, roop, is exactly right: Lucas told a good story at time when it could be told well and received well, he never had any real talent, just the innovation of telling a specific story with available tools based on easily understood myths.


Again, I call BS. Here's some of his student films:

*01-42-08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-cvJq3m7pw
*Electronic Labyrinth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAePOxImiM
*Freiheit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx330bGmxIk

Which already demonstrates his skill in using the camera and music queues. THX showed his skills in using imagery and colors to highlight the film's repressive society. And American Graffiti, one of his other successful films, was almost an autobiography with little mythology elements, and one of the earliest nostalgia films. He used improvisation on set, and used popular music of that time to connect and move scenes. Even Star Wars highlighted his ideas in using forced camera perspective and "used future" visual design in creating believeable world in another galaxy.

You can dislike the prequels all you want, but quit with this revisionist nonsense denouncing Luca's entire career.

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D'accord! The detractors here seem to know little about actually making movies. To make one on your own is next to impossible, to get someone to pay you to make one and give you hundreds of thousands of dollars (today millions) to spend on it is also not a privilege given to any joker who has been to film school, although it would seem like that from viewing most movies made.
Lucas had to have a lot of talent and drive and technical ability in order to get funding for anything, much less an eclectic film like THX 1138.
So much of the film is prophetic of where we are today.

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At one point Lucas was going to do Apocalypse Now before handing to Coppola...I dare not think of what Apocalypse would have been had Lucas tried to do it.


According to something I read a long, long time ago (in Empire magazine) Lucas's conception of Apocalypse Now was to shoot it like a newsreel documentary, with handheld cameras, and on 16mm film.

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You should watch the RedLetterMedia critiques of the prequel movies. He brings up this very point, and argues it quite convincingly. Empire, widely considered the best of the franchise, is the one he had the least to do with.

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You should watch the RedLetterMedia critiques of the prequel movies. He brings up this very point, and argues it quite convincingly. Empire, widely considered the best of the franchise, is the one he had the least to do with.


Speaks quite loud when you need someone else's opinion you convey your own, the sheep-like mentality of the Prequel haters. Which is funny considering that the atrocious Holiday Special and Howard the Duck are commonly blamed on Lucas, despite that he had little involvement other than being the exec producer. Lucas came with the story of ESB long beforehand, and he had control as producer, as Kershner wanted to move the film in another direction - more drama, less action.

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Speaks loudly? And what do the voices say to you?

If they say anything other than I don't have the time or media resources to create several hours of amusing and entertaining critique, but I found them interesting and worth sharing, you might wish to speak to a psychologist.

Nice straw men though. You should write a story about witches and rainbows.




For the enjoyment of the sheep. Scarecrows not welcome.:

http://redlettermedia.com/

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-p hantom-menace/

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-ii-atta ck-of-the-clones/?1e71eee0

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-iii-rev enge-of-the-sith/




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Here's a thought that just occurred to me. Suppose he never was good. Suppose Lucas was always a mediocre talent, but in the early years he happened to team up with a great crew, take advice from his mentors (apparently Coppola was his buddy back then), draw on influences of the time--everything from 2001: A Space Odyssey to Jimi Hendrix, or maybe he just plain got lucky?

In the decades that followed, perhaps he was never able to draw from that same well. Instead he thought he could do it all himself which he did, proving his commercial & business success, but he would never be able to achieve the art & poetry of his earliest works.

That would explain why, instead of giving us anything really new, he's been stuck on Star Wars for the last 30 years, tuning & tweaking & remaking every damn scene because he lacks the creativity to move on.


Sorry, but that's ridiculous. You seem to be one of those who are obsessed with hating Lucas, pinning his successes on other people yet blame his failures on himself. Have you even watched his student films like Freiheit and The Emperor? And your claim that Lucas was stuck on Star Wars is complete BS as well. He produced almost nothing on SW between ROTJ and TPM, instead, there's Indiana Jones, Labyrinth, Tucker, Willow, Radioland Murders, and the upcoming Red Wings. Francis F Cappola, director of Godfather and Apocalypse Now, was responsible for the flops Godfather 3 and Jack and hasn't directed much since. George A Romero, responsible for creating the zombie genre with Night of the Living Dead, has released his own series of disappointing sequels. But just because a director had a series of disappointments or failures doesn't mean you should write off their entire career.

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Regarding your posts in this thread, are you always this angry, or are you just constipated? Good luck with that.

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Great points and post AstrixZero!!!

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Maybe this is just what happens when you make a lot of money when you're young. You get lazy and eventually you get old, and that makes you get even lazier.

Sad but true. One thing that history has taught us is that the UNsuccessful, poor, penniless types are the ones who often have the most passion. Van Gogh, Emily Dickinson, Chopin, to name a few, are some of the many creative people who never found huge commercial success (or in Van Gogh's case never sold a single painting) and somehow it drove them to be even more creative & prolific until the day they died. It's funny, the word itself "passion" comes from a Greek word meaning "to suffer". So it makes sense that hugely successful people like Lucas would stop "suffering", get comfortable & lazy and lose their passion.

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That would explain why, instead of giving us anything really new, he's been stuck on Star Wars for the last 30 years, tuning & tweaking & remaking every damn scene because he lacks the creativity to move on.


According to Coppola, Lucas suffers from severe shyness, diabetes and asthma; the experience of shooting Star Wars in harsh conditions and with little support from the crew (who found him aloof) and his own close circle of friends (who thought the project was dumb and beneath him) made him reluctant to want to direct again. That's the reason Coppola sites for Lucas's decision to essentially farm out the Star Wars sequels and Indiana Jones to other directors.

Lucas only returned to directing when technology had made it possible for him to make a movie in front of a green screen. No more difficult locations, no more angry crew members, no more issues with the weather, etc. And it's possible that Lucas himself found this method of film-making unsatisfying, hence the lack of work since.

There's also the difficulty of competing with an early work that becomes a global phenomenon. Look at the difficulties Coppola has had achieving his ambition to write and direct quirky, small-scale personal projects in the wake of The Godfather. People don't want a movie like One from the Heart, Rumble Fish or Tetro, they wan't something that competes on the same level as The Godfather Parts One and Two.

You can't make a movie like Star Wars and then go back to producing small-scale, existential art-movies inspired by Kurosawa, Godard and Yoshishige Yoshida without incurring a colossal backlash from the enormous mainstream audience now attracted to your work.

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the STAR WARS films killed american cinema-while films here started taking on a european flavor, Lucas jumped on the HOLLYWOOD bandwagon and started remaking the all american park-your-brians-at-the-door Thrilling action flicks of yesteryear,,,,,,,in fact he SUED the fan mag CINEFANTASTIQUE over such statements-pretty greedy and thin skinned there, eh Lucas?

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It's ironic that back in the day he was mad at Warner Bros
for cutting 5 minutes and fought them tooth and nail about it
and now he's done far more damage to it himself.

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This remains Lucas' best directed film (that he has personally directed). He seemed to actually care about things like acting and story back then. THX is still a compelling film, even with Lucas' moronic "updates."

Didn't he say a few years ago that wanted to go back to making small films like THX? whatever happened with that?

Like someone already mentioned, he's ultra-rich. who better to take chances on films than him?

For comparison we see a guy like Jim Cameron, who puts much of his own money into projects and look how it's paid off. Say what you might about Cameron, he's not still bilking fans out of the same franchise for 30+ years now. He's creating NEW projects (what a concept George!), and even sold the rights to a cash cow: the Terminator series.

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Something that bugs me more and more whenever I watch THX is how Lucas and Copolla bitch about Warners practically burying the film because they didn't understand the movie and how to market it. The fall out was that Lucas and Copolla's non-Hollywood, independent production utopia was miscarried due to Warners welching on an tacit agreement to finance it.

The fact that Lucas has never even attempted to support never mind produce a movie like THX since he became a gazillionaire indicates that Lucas himself probably never had any understanding of how to market his movie to an audience. And probably doesn't care to, especially since he would be using his own money to do so.

At least Copolla, once he hit big with The Godfather, went back to shelved Zoetrope projects like The Conversation and ultimately Apocolypse Now.

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For comparison we see a guy like Jim Cameron, who puts much of his own money into projects and look how it's paid off. Say what you might about Cameron, he's not still bilking fans out of the same franchise for 30+ years now. He's creating NEW projects (what a concept George!), and even sold the rights to a cash cow: the Terminator series.


Nah, he's simply pushing out his own 3D gimmick, and planning to re-edit and re-release his films in 3D, not to mention that nearly every one of his films including Aliens, Terminator 2, The Abyss, Titanic, and Avatar has at least two different cuts. And his ego is so huge he trashed Piranha 3D because their technology is inferior to his. Bashing Lucas for milking Star Wars yet ignoring Cameron's own milking of 3D is the height of hypocrisy.

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He strikes back! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BMgegut3UM

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Its funny what fans became....

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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for enough good men to do nothing.

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Judging from his earlier films, I think Lucas was a great storyteller and a visual director.

He just became lost in the whole Hollywood blockbuster thing after he teamed up with Spielberg.

I said I never had much use for one....never said I didn't know how to use it.

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Considering his first film was partly about (and against) mindless consumerism. Now he spends millions adding CG gravity defying mutant monkeys to his old movies and milks the Star Wars cow in every possible imaginable way. Way to stick with your convictions, fatso!


Unfortunately, a lot of talented people in the film industry sell out in this way. They star their careers with interesting work, and increasingly gravitate towards mindless commercial schlock to make a quick buck.

Actors are often worse offenders than directors in this regard.

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Considering his first film was partly about (and against) mindless consumerism. Now he spends millions adding CG gravity defying mutant monkeys to his old movies and milks the Star Wars cow in every possible imaginable way. Way to stick with your convictions, fatso!
....so George Lucas has brainwashed you to buy Star Wars things? lol, Let's get real people.

I don't think 'THX 1138' is saying we should all be communists. And I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with a free capitalist society; no doubt it has its challenges, mainly in equality. But a free capitalist society provides an incentive to work and be productive and it provides an incentive for entreprenuership; all of which contribute towards the betterment of society. People are free to choose their profession and consumers regulate the market through their buying power. It's proven to be an extremely effective system, albeit not a perfect one.

As far as I'm concerned, George Lucas has given the world an extraordinary gift with Star Wars and he has reaped the rewards. Star Wars stuff is on the market because people buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy it, so why are you complaining?

I think 'THX 1138' is a criticism of a capitalist society that is not free. I think this is the threat we face with huge corporations; they get so huge they acquire the "smaller" guys and we're a left with a handful of corporations who control everything and that's too much power. They exist solely for the goal of profit; a narrow-minded obsession. It's a problem when consumers don't have a choice on the free market. And it's a problem when corporations influence governments through lobbying/bribing.

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