What I'm confused about is that when I watched the movie in the New York arthouses in the mid seventies, I recall a scene right at the point where Chas shoots his childhood rival, Joey Maddox. There's a black and white film clip, made to look like 1930's footage, that is intercut, at that point, of two school kids fighting. It's been so many years that I keep wondering whether I imagined it, but that clip was decidedly there when I saw the film in the arthouses in '73 - '74, and isn't in my VHS version. Does anyone else remember this part of the film?
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mepapabear
19 years ago
this black and white footage was reinstated to the version shown on UK TV some years ago. it was present for WB's Maverick Director's PAL VHS release and I can only assume it was in the recent UK theatrical re-release (I have since moved to Canada). so you didn't imagine it.
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vincenzo66
19 years ago
Incidentally the restored Alex Cox widescreen version (aka the Maverick Directors video version) is being shown on BBC2 on Monday 2nd January 2006.
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blackiceuk
19 years ago
Hey, thanks for letting us know this was, was gonna buy this on DVD just to see it again!
Cheers
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vincenzo66
19 years ago
I contacted the BBC to make sure but it's definitely the same (restored widescreen) version that was shown by Alex Cox on the Moviedrome series (and the same version as on the Maverick Directors video).
The version shown on Channel 5 is the (edited) cinema version (apparently the restored version is exclusive to BBC now). Johnny Shannon is, alas, dubbed but this is still the longest print available.
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userofthewheel
19 years ago
Vincenzo, I had a recording of the BBC2 Moviedrome one from about 1990 and Harry Flower's "voice" was intact so I'm not sure why BBC2 is now showing the dubbed version. What have they done with the original print?
As anybody familiar with the film knows the dubbing ruins the whole thing. It's infuriating that Warner Bros released the dubbed version (on Maverick Directors VHS) with no warning of an "alternative soundtrack" so to speak. Lets hope the DVD release rectifies this.
You was merged my son
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vincenzo66
19 years ago
I'm absolutely disgusted that they televised the dubbed AND cut version. I contacted them over a week ago and they assured me it would be the same version they showed in the 90's Moviedrome series!
Alas I no longer have the original Alex Cox/Moviedrome version either. I only have the Maverick Directors video, so I can't compare them. I thought the 2 versions were one and the same, and that the original Moviedrome showing also featured 'dubbed' dialogue - but it's been so long ago now that I can't remember.
(IMDB quote)...... The Maverick Directors VHS release is the same version shown previously in the UK on BBC 2, which was introduced by Alex Cox as being the most complete version available.
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Signed_DC
19 years ago
Which bits were cut in last night's screening? I watched it and didn't notice anthing missing.
A few people have mentioned Harry Flowers voice being dubbed. Every time I've seen it, including last night, he's had the same 'cor blimey guvna' cockney accent. Is this the dubbed voice?
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vincenzo66
19 years ago
I didn't watch it to be honest (I'm happy with the Maverick Directors cut to date) but a poster on a previous thread says 'The scene with the identical twins trying to sell Turner a Magritte painting is missing', as well as mentioning the dubbing etc.
It's strange if it was a cut version. The Beeb told me it would be the same version as the Maverick Directors/Moviedrome one.
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p-halley
19 years ago
I taped last nights' and it comes out at 1h41 mins even though the T.V. paper quotes the film running to 105 mins!(One of the 'correct' lengths, as in Imdb listing).
At least it was shown in letterbox unlike when BBC4 shown it in 2004-chopped off at the sides(I'll have to see how long that one was although I've got that on a VHS unlike last nights which I dubbed onto a dvd).
One of the most compelling British films from the 60's still being allowed on telly in this idiotically 'politically correct era'.
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userofthewheel
19 years ago
I've now had chance to check the version I taped from BBC2 the other night and Johnny Shannon (Harry Flowers) is not dubbed like he is in the Maverick Directors VHS version (the soundtrack presumably destined for the USA). Visually it is exactly the same as the Maverick Directors version.
BBC2 showed exactly the same version they showed on Moviedrome all those years ago. This would make sense as I cannot see the BBC wasting license payers money by buying in a different version.
I'm not sure what version Channel 5 have shown as I've never seen that one.
Before anyone suggests that there are two dubbed versions in existence there aren't! I know Johnny Shannon's voice, I've seen him in the Sweeney also.
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vincenzo66
19 years ago
Strange that. According to the IMDB the Maverick Directors VHS release is the same version shown previously in the UK on BBC 2 (presumably including the dubbing). Perhaps they spliced the Maverick Directors print with a new 'un-dubbed' soundtrack.
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userofthewheel
19 years ago
Whatever IMDB says, the Maverick Directors edition is the same print as the BBC2 Moviedrome version but with the US soundtrack.
BBC2 screened this movie at least five years before WB realeased the Maverick Directors video series.
Comparing all three versions I have seen (BBC2 Moviedrome circa 1990, Maverick Directors VHS and BBC2 this week) visually they are identical. Therefore in my opinion BBC2 have only ever shown one version.
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Marcello-6
19 years ago
I've got the (US released) original Warners video release from the late '80's (I think), with the big plastic box. Can anyone tell me whether this version also has Harry's and Laurie's voices dubbed, or is it the original?
I've heard about the X version; I heard that there was something like 15 minutes of Mick and Anita having graphic sex that was cut out of the final version; one story claims that the outtakes were made into a short adult feature that won some sort of Danish porn award. Does anyone know whether Warners is EVER going to restore this footage? Surely it must exist.
P.S. Kudos to the person who make the "Idiotic PC" remark. I could not agree more. The mealy-mouthed wimpification of our world continues unchecked, and I am *beep* sick of it. It's the new fascism in nice polite clothing. I've been saying that since 1989, incidentally.
Here's to Olde England!
"Putting a bit of stick about...putting the frighteners on flash little twerps."
"United we stand, divided we're lumbered."
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sugkun
19 years ago
Hi I recently emailed the BBC regarding this. I asked -
Hi Can I ask why you showed a different (partly dubbed) version of this film this year, rather than the version shown in the early 90's as part of the Moviedrome series? Does the BBC still have the moviedrome print?
And they replied -
When the BBC showed the film previously we hadn't realised that the version sent
to us by the distribution company was the American release, which had some of
the dialogue of the character of Harry Flowers re-dubbed.
In all versions other than the original print the voices of Johnny Shannon and
Laraine Wickens have been overdubbed by two other actors. This was because the
actors' own voices were thought to be 'too cockney' for non-UK audiences to
understand.
When we realised this after the film was transmitted the Programme
Executive, Programme Acquisition, went into an edit and using our old
transmission tape replaced the 'dubbed' voices with the original voices.
In effect we replaced the offending dubbed voice of Harry with the original
British soundtrack.
- This seems to me that the BBC have mistakenly dubbed over the Moviedrome version with the US soundtrack as when i compare my Moviedrome tape with the episode of The Sweeney with Johnny Shannon in, they are clearly the same. Im utterly confused and dont hold much hope of the DVD version having the original soundtrack....
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