MovieChat Forums > Mary Tyler Moore (1970) Discussion > Mary could still be a virgin!

Mary could still be a virgin!

posted 9 years ago by RvaBread22
19 replies | jump to latest

Most viewers think that Mary had a "lost virginity" episode. The one where her parents come to visit and she didn't come home until 8:27 in the morning

There are so many things about that episode in particular that make it ambiguous. Even during the early 1970s, I'm sure many people were not ready for a single woman to be sleeping around like a harlot.

So I believe there are so many possibilities as to why Mary came home late. For one thing, notice she says she is going to a 'Dinner Party" . Its not quite the same as a "date".

Mary could have been a house guest with friends. The evening got late, and Mary didn't want to go home at such an odd hour, so her friends let her stay and sleep on the sofa. That could have happened! Or Mary simply decided to go out for a late night drink and she ended up not able to get home by herself, so she stayed there over night for her safety.

It doesn't mean she had s-e-x. Let's remember , Mary is still a good girl. I bet she was a virgin til the shows end.

[–] zypherix 9 years ago

She's an adult so.. probably not. But we'll never know ^^

--<(Atheism, a wiser choice)>--

[–] tmaj48 9 years ago

Get over it. Mary was on the Pill; in one episode, Mary's mother asks her husband, "Did you take your pill?" Both Dr. Richards and Mary respond "Yes."
Dr. Richards was elderly and on prescription meds; Mary was on you-know-what.

I'm not crying, you fool, I'm laughing!

Hewwo.

[–] RvaBread22 9 years ago

Well I believe Mary is a virgin because she doesn't seem like a slut to me.

[–] mmitsos-1 9 years ago

OMG....those are the TWO categories in which you place women.....a virgin or a SLUT???

*beep* YOU.

[–] ElRaisuli 9 years ago

From "My Brother's Keeper":

Phyllis: "Mary, I don't want to push you two into each other's arms... It's just that, from the moment you moved into our building, I was thinking to myself, 'Ben would love Mary.' And then, of course, you're both unmarried... Seems as if you've been saved for each other."

Mary: "Well, Phyl... I'm not all that saved."

https://youtu.be/wgmiaxJa9I8?t=4m30s

[–] RvaBread22 9 years ago

And that line could have been written for the sake of the comedic effect. Its what they call "retcon"

There are many ways to interpret that line.

Also in one episode Mary says she speaks French when they are going to Mexico
In another episode she says she speaks "Spanish". Different writers can cause confusion. I believe that Mary was pure and was saving herself for marriage.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jayhn1111 9 years ago

I think you're sort of reaching here. She met somebody at the party and went home with a guy and had sex. It's that simple. Every guy that you saw on the show that she dated, she was having sex with plus tons of guys we didn't see. Not at all saying she was a slut or anything like that. She was an adult and dated frequently and had sex. Nothing wrong with that.

[–] RvaBread22 9 years ago

No, because we don't know that. It is audience interpretation as to what happened after the party. How do you know she had sex? Remember the guy that wanted to spend the night and she said "no"? I think Mary was a nice girl and had traditional values and wanted to wait til she got married.

[–] jayhn1111 9 years ago

It's the only possible conclusion to come to. She came home what, 8 something in the morning, on a work night, didn't want to tell her parents what she was doing. I don't think she was playing tiddlywinks with a few friends all night. Sorry but your other excuses for her don't fly either. And it was not a "lost her virginity episode" because she wasn't a virgin to begin with. She had been engaged before. Others in this thread have already pointed out her little innuendos and references to the fact that she's had sex.

I'm not too clear on what episode you're referring to about a guy that wanted to spend the night. Nobody is suggesting that Mary just jumped in the sack with everybody after one date. Just because she said no to him, doesn't mean she was little miss virgin Mary. She was middle aged and dated men. That'd be pretty naïve to think she didn't sleep with the men she dated. It is true there was a time when more women wanted to wait til they got married for sex. But that was also a time when most people got married by the age of 19! She was in her 30's. YOu seem to want to believe she was almost nun like. I'd rather think of her like any other normal middle aged single woman (who has sex like any other human being would). What you are suggesting is not normal and nobody she would date that's close to her age would accept no sex before marriage.

[–] RvaBread22 9 years ago

30s is not middle aged! Not even for back then. What drugs are you on?

She wasn't a young girl, but she wasn't a 50 something either. She slept overnight at the house. It was a dinner party and it was late, and she didn't want to take a ride home (remember this was before Mary had a car). So , they let Mary be their house guest for the night. Its that simple.

If Mary is having sex outside of marriage, it would mean she is a loose woman. Mary seems too pure and nice for that.

[–] jayhn1111 9 years ago

Well, she was pushing 40 towards the end of the series. Sort of borderline and that's a matter of opinion, but the point being she was well over 30. If you think somebody that's that age is a loose woman for having sex with somebody she's dating, then you haven't been exposed to the real world yet. From reading your posts, it seems like to you there's 2 categories for women. Either they're a virgin till they get married, or they're a slut.

[–] RvaBread22 9 years ago

Okay, maybe early middle aged.I guess to me, I always felt middle aged is when people start to look worn out and haggard. By your definition, a Sr. in college is only 10-12 years away from mid-life. Doesn't sound right to me. But back then probably more so. People started getting married out of high school.

[–] jayhn1111 9 years ago

You are correct that middle aged may not have been the right way to describe her, but when over 30, women have sex with the man they are dating or are engaged to for that matter.

[–] thirdrow 9 years ago

No way was she a virgin. It is pretty clear if you read between the lines throughout the years. Even the start of the show is Mary running from a relationship that went sour.

[–] candrew088 9 years ago

In Season Six's "Mary Richards Falls in Love" it's made readily obvious that she's in a sexually active relationship with her boyfriend.

In previous episodes/seasons, there are plenty of subtle hints about Mary and her boyfriends; but in this particular episode they all but hit the viewer over the head with the fact that she's having sex.

[–] mmaryrocksit 9 years ago

I think the writers were pretty shrewd about their audience.....they didn't want to offend those who were conservative about sexual activity, but still wanted Mary to be cool and hip--- not a "square". They kept the network happy by not divulging that Mary was sexually active and still had all the vague references to lead those of us who would like to believe that Mary had more than one lover.

[–] RvaBread22 9 years ago

So sleeping around is really cool and hip? It seems a bit ironic. But to cater to the prevailing culture means you're cool and hip but to rebel against it means you're "square">

"Life is like a box of Krispy Kreme donuts".

[–] mistymturnerhustad 9 years ago

It's not unheard of for an adult woman to not have had sex because they are waiting for marriage. I actually have a sister-in-law who is over 40 and a virgin because she's saving herself for marriage. That being said the writers clearly meant to convey that Marry was not a virgin. There is even episode where Mary confides to Rhoda that she worries she is undersexed. I in fact saw an interview with Mary Tyler Moore when she addresses the fact that it was risque at the time that her character was a single woman who was portrayed as having sex. The writers didn't chose to hit viewers over the head with it, but they clearly meant to portray Mary as a progressive woman including her having sex. As for saying that she is a lose woman if she has sex before marriage, I have one question, do you hold men to the same standard? If not that is incredible offensive. I was 21 when I got married and I actually was a virgin, but even I find calling any woman who is unmarried and not a virgin very offensive. I actually really hate the way TV today depicts women falling into bed with men they barely know, and a lot of woman on TV today I would call a slut, though, that's not PC anymore. However, I doubt Mary was falling into bed with every guy she dated. She was clearly not a virgin no matter how much you are in denial about that, but she was hardly a slut.