MovieChat Forums > Where Eagles Dare (1969) Discussion > Why take the real spies back?

Why take the real spies back?


I love "Where Eagles Dare" but, upon each viewing, am annoyed by a few anomalies that I believe detract from the movie and make it overlong. Top of the list here is Smith´s decision to take the three German spies back to Blighty with his group. Eastwood has, by this stage, shot about half the German army, so why risk taking back these three men who, aware that a hangman´s rope will await them in England, will prove dangerous and burdonsome, most particularly since Smith´s group have not yet even made their descent from the castle. Would it not have made more sense, considering the amount of killing already evident, to just have executed these men and gotten it over with? Dangerous and burdonsome they prove to be, overpowering Eastwood and necessitating pursuit by Burton on the cable car. Burton even risks the success of the mission by pursuing these men in the cable car - when he straps explosives to it, how in the world does he imagine that he is going to get back up to join his comrades? Does he know that another cable car will be passing him at an opportune moment and, with a wounded hand, he would be able to successfully launch himself onto it and rejoin his colleagues still at the Schoss Adler? And why did the two Germans on the cable car, when they had incapacitated Eastwood, not simply open the door of the cable car entrance and make their escape? And why would BOTH of them dare to fight with Burton on the roof of the cable car itself? It makes little sense to me. As does the fact that the cable car entrance is deserted when Smith and company are making their great escape. Why would the Germans, considering the damage already done to the castle, not simply use explosives rather than hammers to open these doors? Drama is the answer, I suppose!

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It is a bit short on logic, but many reviews of the film state that Alistair MacLean's screenplay favors suspense over logic. And that's what makes it an action classic. It flows well and holds water within it's own structure, but it is really a just an action movie.

"Don't mind him, he's from Barcelona"

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[deleted]

I thought they were to be taken back for full interrogation and execution? I know it doesn't make sense, typical stiff upper lip stuff and adds to the tention tho.

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[deleted]

I would hazard a guess that Smith needed them to help escape the castle!

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[deleted]

i agree that i found this part odd. why didn't burton just shoot them, pass them down to eastwood, let him put the bodies in the cable car with explosives, and send it down?

he seemed like he expected them to jump eastwood...so he must have planned to some how 'let them go, and then kill them'.

that makes little sense, but, oh well, its fiction.

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BOOK SPOILERS:


In the original novel, Smith (Burton's character) is much less bloodthirsty. For instance, they don't kill the German officers in the interregation room--they simply drug them so they won't wake up before the good guys have a chance to get back to England. Later on, Smith makes everyone hide and wait so that he can run back up a flight of stairs and untie a German they had knocked out earlier. He was afraid the German would get burned to death by a fire they had just started as a distraction.

So the logic is that Smith doesn't want to just gun the double agents down. He prefers, if possible, to take them back to England for them to stand trial. He doesn't kill them until he's forced to during the cable car fight.

This logic doesn't stand up quite as well in the movie, where Burton and Eastwood were so casual about gunning people down--but there you are.

When the double agents jump Eastwood's character in the cable car room, they briefly discuss just opening the door and letting in the Germans, but they realize that no active German in the castle knows they are on the same side--they're afraid they'll get shot on sight. So they opt to go down to the village and surrender there.

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Actually, I think in this case McClean wrote the book AFTER he wrote the screenplay, at least that's what Robert Osborne said on TMC. According to Osborne, Burton wanted to do an action movie to break a string of artsy movies with lackluster box-office returns, so he asked McClean to write one. McClean liked the story he came up with so much that he developed it into a novel.

And I agree that the scene with the cablecar in which Schaeffer (Eastwood) jumps to help the injured German spy was perhaps the most implausible action in a movie full of implausible events. I also thought the Germans' complete lack of marksmanship contrasted with the Allies "magic bullet" shooting became so pronounced as to be impossible to overlook.

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In British/American war movies I've seen, the Germans are always portrayed as executing those whom they suspect of spying, with little or no pretence of a trial (e.g. The Great Escape).

It could be the story was written this way to show how British armed forces were morally superior because they still respected prisoners and would ensure a fair trial.

I'm not saying this was necessarily true in wartime, but merely a subtle, maybe even unintentional piece of propaganda on the part of the film-makers.

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Well in the case of The Great Escape the massacre of the recaptured POWs by the SS wasn't just a Hollywood invention, it was a historical fact.

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When Burton's character accuses the German spies of working for the English, they are unable to name Germany's top spy in England because, as they say, they communicated indirectly through numerous contacts. Even though they supposedly wrote down the names of some these contacts on the notebooks, taking them back and interrogating them would be useful in order to more thoroughly eliminate the German spy ring.

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The question about taking the prisoners back was already explained, in the context of the novel, by the other posters. I'll address the other points.

"Burton even risks the success of the mission by pursuing these men in the cable car - when he straps explosives to it, how in the world does he imagine that he is going to get back up to join his comrades? Does he know that another cable car will be passing him at an opportune moment and, with a wounded hand, he would be able to successfully launch himself onto it and rejoin his colleagues still at the Schoss Adler?"
Yes, he knew another cable car was coming up. Lack of foresight is not something of which you can accuse Smith. He had a lot of little details planned practically half a day in advance.

"And why did the two Germans on the cable car, when they had incapacitated Eastwood, not simply open the door of the cable car entrance and make their escape?"
They were hoping to save their skins by making the "deal" with Smith. They knew he was capable of killing them -- by gunning them down perhaps.

"And why would BOTH of them dare to fight with Burton on the roof of the cable car itself?"
What other alternative did they have? Wait? Two men on one is not unreasonable; they just failed. What *is* surprising is that Smith didn't take his gun. But then again he just expected to blow them up and not have to engage them directly.

"As does the fact that the cable car entrance is deserted when Smith and company are making their great escape."
You're right, that seems surprising. Of course, the castle thought it was under attack at this point -- all hands on deck, etc. Not that it would have been hard to clear the room by the commandos bursting in with the element of surprise.

"Why would the Germans, considering the damage already done to the castle, not simply use explosives rather than hammers to open these doors?"
Two reasons -- first of all, using explosives in stone corridors is an exceptionally bad idea because of collapsing masonry -- second, an explosive in a corridor will always fill it with smoke and render it unusable for a space of time, third, explosives are not necessarily the most efficient at blasting a door. Most of the charge will go into the wide-open corridor unless you tamp it down, in which case you risk the tamp flying off and hitting you. Hammers were the right solution, short of riddling it with automatic fire (which could also be risky due to bullets and shrapnel ricocheting off the metalwork.

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That's one of the things that bothers me too - it never really made much sense to me. I think after the big scene where Burton explains all of the plot twists to the Germans the movie goes downhill - everything up to and including that scene is great, everything after a silly if still watchable action movie.

I'll add also that the fact that Burton explains everything to the German officers AFTER his cover is blown never made much sense - why exactly did they need to know that? Unless Burton was just gloating. They might as well have killed them all as soon as the Colonel realized what was going on.

Mr. Rusk. You're not wearing your tie!

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the point that I was confused with was why did Eastwoods character immediatley run to help the traitor when he faked an injury after jumping from the top of the cable car.



"all I have ever asked of my men is to follow my orders as if they were the word of god"

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Cause he is the good guy.....sheesh.

What I didn't understand.......why hammers?

Axes would've been better.

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Actually, it makes sense. They want to get the German agents in the UK. While they have names and addresses, its always better to have the contacts lure the agents into a trap instead of trying to round them all up at once. And there may be more they can use them for, force them to be triple agents and feed the Nazi intel with false info over time. A turned spy will always try to save their life, so they were not only vulnerable to being turned they could easily be turned and used, especially with the head German agent being dead. Didn't work out, but they had their potential uses that would justify the risk. In the real world, a turned spy is a valuable thing, you can count on him/her to do anything to try to save their own skin and play it straight. Valuable, but also expendable.

And it makes for good drama too.

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the silliest bit for me , as well as those already mentioned, is:
They try to take the 3 double agents back , at huge risk to the mission , presumably for trial , info , traps etc , as mentioned
But yet once they finger the top dog bad guy , in the plane on they way back , they just let him jump out!

also one my dad mentioned years ago: when clint spends 5 mins tiptoeing up to that radio guy with a knife , when they could have just shot him with the silenced pistol , as indeed they did once the alarm was going off.

the answer to all these of course is drama / suspense / action movie , which I'm happy with
great film!

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I love this movie, too, but mark6785 is right about the one scene when Eastwood sneaks into the radio room with a knife to kill the radio operator. It makes no sense because him and Burton had just killed a bunch of Nazis with silencer pistols.

The radio operator hears Eastwood before Eastwood can stab him, sounds the alarm, and then Burton whips out the silencer and kills the radio man. Then, the sounding of the alarm causes the whole German army to zero in on their location. If they would have simply shot the radio man in the back with the silencer in the first place, then they could have avoided all the extra trouble.

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first off its a movie just enjoy it and second laddiebuck already explained almost everything

Burton's character always thought ahead sometimes hours in advance so he probably thought hostages could come in handy and one did (when the spies were cornered he used a spy to make the nazis think they escaped

and the radio operator i see like this the operator was right next to the alarm if the gunshot was instantly fatal he could have sounded the alarm

and I'm mad Clint didn't get to kill him because his knife kills were some of the many highlights of the movie

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"I love this movie, too, but mark6785 is right about the one scene when Eastwood sneaks into the radio room with a knife to kill the radio operator. It makes no sense because him and Burton had just killed a bunch of Nazis with silencer pistols. ..."

--This movie has more than it's fair share of goofs, but this scene is NOT one of them. The whole reason Clint used stealth instead of his pistol was because the Radio (remember, they wanted to use it) was directly in front of the Operator. A penetrating bullet could have easily passed through his body and damaged it. Burton (with the Big Brain) was there as a backup, of course. I thought the scene was absolutely brilliant. I'm sure someone in a previous thread has pointed this out already :)

I was eight years old when I saw this movie on the big screen on its first-run, and it made a huge impression on me. One of my all-time favorites.

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You answered your own question OP. Drama is the answer. Like someone already said why take the three back for interrogation (makes sense) but let the top-dog Col. insider who could have revealed so much more jump off the plane!

Strictly though it would have been illegal to shoot them without trial, but considering the dire circumstances.

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Thought it was because of the wealth of espionage material they can get from the double agents during interrogation. Invaluable to intelligence organizations. But it is a curiosity.

"Does he know that another cable car will be passing him at an opportune moment..."

Yes actually. Cable cars like that are in pairs. One is always going down and the other up. They always pass each other in the middle at the same place. We see this pass a couple times in the film. It would have been simple for Smith to estimate where the midpoint of the cable travel would be and so where to expect the other cable car. Jumping onto it is another thing entirely.

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in respect to the cable car i think one goes down, one goes up, so the cable car's would definitely pass at one point.

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I suppose, the author thought, that an interrogation would be needed back in Blighty, to hopefully learn how the spies were recruited and so on.

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