Celia Johnson was my favorite character... - The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie (1969) Discussion

[–] rrb 17 years ago

Celia Johnson was brilliant. She absolutely understands Miss Mckay and conveys her feelings every second she's on screen. They could show that performance in acting classes--she is absolutely true, alive and in character every moment, whether she's speaking or not.

Dame Celia should've been nominated for, and won, the best supporting actress Oscar for '69. She was far more deserving that effing Goldie Hawn.

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[–] bagelbacherjerome 17 years ago

Celia Johnson was outstanding. I'm ashamed to say that I hadn't
seen her in any movies prior to "The Prime of Miss Jean". Was she
previously cast as the stern superordinate in other roles?

In reference to the use of this movie in acting classes, I have been
in touch with a drama teacher who uses the scene (towards the
end; when Sandy and Miss Jean are arguing after Miss Jean has
been fired) in her classes.

What a film!

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[–] rob-949 16 years ago

Celia Johnson was known for her naturalistic acting and said not to have liked making films much, preferring the stage. Go watch Brief Encounter and consider the time that it was made and you'll see how unique she was. Most actresses would have over done that part, making sure to overdo every bit of struggle the character goes through, but Celia Johnson (comparatively) under David Lean's fine direction simply was the character and let the audience put the rest together.

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[–] afn01288 16 years ago

She really was. Every scene with Dame Maggie just popped with the two strong personalities going at each other. I underestimated Celia Johnson's role vastly before watching the film a couple of times.

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[–] bagelbacherjerome 16 years ago

In "The Prime of Miss Jean", Maggie Smith's character refers to the authoritarian manner of the headmistress even before we get to witness
Celia Johnson's actions. Screenwriting of that sort makes an actor's
task a challenge -- the audience already has an idea of what to expect
of the one playing the headmistress. Celia Johnson rose to the occasion artfully. I suspect the screenwriters did this because they knew she
was a real pro.

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[–] afn01288 16 years ago

Good point. My angle was simply that an authorotarian character can be so simplistic. CJ hit every note in the score as you imply.

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[–] philboleyn-1 16 years ago

Celia Johnson was brilliant in the part of Miss McKay...flawlessly performed. I am also very much impressed by Pamela Franklin's Sandy. Both should have been nominated for the Supporting Oscar that year (1969). I see the British Academy corrected that mistake.

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[–] lauraeileen894 16 years ago

I agree about Celia Johnson, and I always thought Miss McKay was misunderstood. She just wants order in her school, and she's probably sick to death of dealing with Miss Brodie.

"Will you stop feeling sorry for yourself?! It's bad for your complexion!"-"Sixteen Candles"

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[–] mpgmpg123 15 years ago

She didn't just want order, she was, very rightfully, terribly concerned about the terrible boundaries between Miss Brodie and the girls. Emotionally healthy teachers don't "hang out" with their 12 year old students. Of course, as previously noted in other posts, the fascist-loving, let's-try-to-push teenage girls into the arms of married teachers Miss Brodie was hardly emotionally healthy! She knew, and was right, that Miss Brodie was doing terrible, irreparable damange to the girls. Sandy would never recover (I think that is why they put the "give me an impressionable girl" speech over the ending credits over Sandy's face, that inded she had been an impressionable girl and the damage was done by that point) and of course poor Mary died. Sad, fascinating movie. I like Miss McKay the best too, ethical, practical. And what a contrast from Brief Encounter. Wow!

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[–] techniscope 15 years ago

yes, i completely agree. however, miss mackay went the wrong way about it. instead of blackmailing her, she should have found some concrete evidence against miss brodie.

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[–] marktayloruk (2590) a year ago

The rigid order of old-fashioned Puritans Miss Brodie at least didn't conform!

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[–] rogerneon 11 years ago

I thought Celia Johnson was brilliant in her role as Miss McKay, though I had forgotten it's pronounced "Mack-EYE." Miss McKay reminds me SO much of my elementary school principal in both actions and appearance... I remember thinking my principal was about 7 feet tall, though I think that while she was tall for a woman, the fact that she was so lean tended to emphasize the impression.

Of the two women in the film, I now believe that Miss Brodie was by far the greatest villain, but I suspect that Miss McKay took a strong dislike to Miss Brodie from the first day they met. However, the Headmistress had to constantly deal with her staff (which included more than just teachers), her students, the Board of Governors, parents,and whatever authority certified schools in Scotland. Remember, it was a private school and must have been rather expensive to attend. I recently went online and looked at the web sites current private all-girls schools in Edinburgh, and one year's tuition was 6,000 pounds (NOT dollars), so this would have to be extrapolated to 1932 Depression-era pounds.

Miss Brodie blatantly played favorites, and was in some ways more autocratic than Miss McKay... the ridiculous remark about the window being open too wide, her scolding the girl for having her sleeves rolled up, telling Mary to tie her shoe laces, and insisting that her favorite was the greatest Italian painter.

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[–] ronfirv 11 years ago

As an Edinburgh boy in the 50's/60's, not all private or what we termed grant-aided schools were expensive. Put it this way, many were within the reach of middle-income families, both boys' schools and girls' schools. Some have merged or closed since I was a boy but the distinctive uniforms were a well known sight in my home city.
Edinburgh education encouraged 'a guid conceit' of ourselves and being a native of Edinburgh even more so.
As Dame Muriel once said, Edinburgh is a state of mind. Spot-on.

My mother was told by some of her country cousins that I was "very Edinburgh". Make of that what you will, but I took it as a back-handed compliment. My late mother was up to the remark, replying, well that is where he is from. Silence. She was a canny old Edinburgh lass indeed.

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[–] rogerneon 11 years ago

Now that you mention it, in the scene when Sandy and the other girl are practicing the tango, the other girl mentions someone who "worked in her father's shop," which I assume establishes her as middle class, and the school isn't residential like most of the REALLY top-drawer ones are.

However, I think we're still meant to understand that Marcia Blaine is a very prestigious school, and that not just anybody can get into it. I suspect that Mary's admission has more to do with the size of the trust that pays for her and her brother's care than it does with her scholastic abilities.

I think that might give us some more insight on Miss Brodie's very flawed character... while it's pretty evident that she holds much the school's curriculum and administration in contempt, she won't for a moment consider working in a "progressive" school. She desires the prestige that comes with being on the faculty of Marcia Blaine. Perhaps a bit like her idol Mussolini, who was mostly "show" and very little substance.

I can't help but wonder what she did between her dismissal in what, 1938 and her death in 1946. Another poster has pointed out that she probably didn't need to work for a living, which may be just as well because I rather doubt that even a progressive school would have been really thrilled to have her on the eve of the Second World War.

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[–] ronfirv 11 years ago

You have a point.
Some of Edinburgh's private or grant-aided schools were very prestigious others less so, BUT still offered a high standard of education.
To understand the success of these schools you should understand Edinburgh's 'psyche'; even, or especially amongst other Scots, we are thought of as snobby, or preppy. There is or was, a saying north of the border that Edinburgh folk are "East Windy and West Endy"! Not helped by the fact our accent is less strong than say some of the accents on the West coast. Remember, in history, the entire area was settled by Angles and not Scots and was a firm part of Northumbria until very late 11thC.

Search for Miss Brodie's line spoken to her girls, "Remember, you are citizens of Edinburgh, so hold your heads up, up,up......"

Miss Brodie would not have taught in any progressive school, that is a definite. She was very libertarian but no liberal! You were absolutely correct in judging Jean Brodie having lapped up the snobbery of being a teacher at Marcia Blane School for Girls. (Edinburgh had quite a few very similar schools, such as The Mary Erskine School for Girls, St. Denis's, St Hilary's, James Gillespie's Girls School, and George Watson's Ladies College, and St.Margaret's. We boys had our George Heriot's, George Watson's, Daniel Stewart's, Melville College, later merged with previous, Edinburgh Academy,James Gillespie's for Boys, Royal High School, and the more famous Fettes College, known as Scotland's Eton. Even in the 70's and 80's, Edinburgh boasted a higher percentage of pupils attending non-State schools than anywhere else in Scotland, and that considerably so).

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[–] rogerneon 11 years ago

Interesting point about the accent being less pronounced in Edinburgh... it was helpful for the moviemakers when making a movie that could be understood in the rest of the English-speaking world. It's the same reason why in American movies and television shows everyone speaks with a Midwestern/western accent, which may sound funny to people in the Deep South or the Northeast, but it can at least be understood.

I'm reminded of the author James Herriot (real name Alfred Wight) who, even though he was English, spoke with a Glasgow accent, or so he said in his books.

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[–] rogerneon 10 years ago

Some things must be cross-cultural, because Miss McKay reminded me SO much of my American small town elementary school principal in the 1960's.

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