MovieChat Forums > Midnight Cowboy (1969) Discussion > symbolic meaning

symbolic meaning

posted 10 years ago by intofilm
9 replies | jump to latest

One reason I love this movie is how I see its psychological symbolism and archetypes. If you're not interested in that kind of exploration, just skip this post.
Joe is a person who is a combination of good and bad impulses, who has been mis-formed by his dysfunctional upbringing to have trouble forming mature relationships with women, and thus sees nothing wrong with using them for his own advancement.
He makes a decision to go over to his "dark side" but he doesn't see that as wicked, just an easy way to make money.
He goes to NYC, a place that is seen to be filled with dark characters (we see very few normal, wholesome people in New York in this film) and links up with Ratso/Rico, who represents the personification of all that is "dark" in him. The more closely he relates to Ratso, the more he sinks into degradation.
Ratso dreams of getting to Miami, but only to continue his rackets of cheating and exploiting.
As Ratso begins to sicken and weaken, things improve for Joe, he falls in with a fairly nice rich lady and potentially his dream is coming true.
He makes a final desperate violent attempt to keep Ratso alive, but Ratso's influence is passing away.
As they journey out of New York, heading through clear blue skies, clean surroundings, and sunshine, Joe sheds his dark identity, and the soiled garments of Ratso. He meets a wholesome, nice waitress in the diner (unlike anyone seen in NY). Having transformed his identity with the new clothes, he informs Ratso he is going to get a real job. His good self has won out. So Ratso, unable to sustain his existence, dies.

[–] janet-conant 10 years ago

Very interesting take on the film and "spot" on. That Florida waitress is the first truly friendly person Joe has met. Very moving when Ratso, with no sarcasm, says "Thanks Joe" when he wipes his face on the bus. You see Joe actually starting to care about Rico when he falls asleep clutching his radio and keeps saying "Rico Rico Rico Rico" smiling. The scene when Joe takes out his shirt to wipe Rico's head is another show of empathy.

[–] Synthia7 10 years ago

A very brilliant summary.

[–] InherentlyYours 9 years ago

'A very brilliant summary.'
---------------------------------
wow

1. And the street signs oft-used that always point north/ south is symbolic of Joe's destination on an emotional level. Scenes with Ratso are devoid of such street signs, indicating his 'direction' into oblivion

2. The snow on the ground ..tainted by gray mud symbolizes purity being overshadowed by the darkness in life (the yellow color is just dog urine)

3. The bus being painted blue reminds us that blue is Heaven, embraced by angels, and Joe is embarking towards Godliness. The clean clothes also indicate such, since 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness'.

4. Cass is full bodied because it reminds Joe that his is mom was the same, and also had blonde hair, which therefore is hallucinatory due to Joe being the victim of incest.

How extraordinary and profound. Gee, this is fun, huh.

..ya millennial morons

[–] rascal67 9 years ago

Don't forget that Joe's descent into depravity, as in resorting to "homosexuality", is only because he was desperate, that he allowed himself to sink so low. Not to mention being a "statutory rapist" of a high school kid.

Exorcist: Christ's power compels you. Cast out, unclean spirit.
Destinata:💩

[–] pturman-929-979676 10 years ago

As good an interpretation as any other I've heard. Write a review of it & post. You make some insightful comments.

[–] InherentlyYours 9 years ago

'Joe is a person who is a combination of good and bad impulses, who has been mis-formed by his dysfunctional upbringing to have trouble forming mature relationships with women, and thus sees nothing wrong with using them for his own advancement.'
---------------------------
'He's not using them, he wants to make cash. The women are using him for sex.'

'He goes to NYC, a place that is seen to be filled with dark characters (we see very few normal, wholesome people in New York in this film) and links up with Ratso/Rico, who represents the personification of all that is "dark" in him. The more closely he relates to Ratso, the more he sinks into degradation.'
-------------------------------
He would have degraded anyway, with or without Ratso. Ratso helped Joe NOT degrade faster than he would have

'As they journey out of New York, heading through clear blue skies, clean surroundings, and sunshine, Joe sheds his dark identity, and the soiled garments of Ratso.'
---------------------------
Ratso is the symbolism for dirt, once again.

'Having transformed his identity with the new clothes, he informs Ratso he is going to get a real job. His good self has won out. So Ratso, unable to sustain his existence, dies.'
--------------------------
We don't if he is transformed, only that he wants both him and Ratso to have clean clothes. His good self is not related to "bad" Ratso.

'One reason I love this movie is how I see its psychological symbolism and archetypes. If you're not interested in that kind of exploration, just skip this post.'
-----------------------
indeed. Your thread is symbolic, alright.

[–] rascal67 9 years ago

'As they journey out of New York, heading through clear blue skies, clean surroundings, and sunshine, Joe sheds his dark identity, and the soiled garments of Ratso.'
---------------------------

Ratso is the symbolism for dirt, once again.

___________________________
😄 Crack me up IY. Poor ole Ratso, being as filthy as he was, the new shirt won't hide all the dirt underneath. To some, it would appear his dirt has now become a visual metaphor and is indicative of the filth and decay of late contemporary 60's NY society and it's inhabitants. Or perhaps it simply means, that Joe and Ratso were lucky enough that the bus stopped next to a supermarket, so Joe could buy some climate appropriate clothing, so as to feel fresher. Sad that his cowboy outfit has been interpreted as a dark identity here. That is as insulting to cowboys, same as Ratso calling John Wayne a f@g. I thought Joe looked quite spiffy in his outfit.

We don't if he is transformed, only that he wants both him and Ratso to have clean clothes.
______________
I like how Joe mentioned that Ratso's shirt, was the last one with palm trees. Even if that wasn't true, it was the generosity and encouragement Joe projected at Ratso, knowing that he would like it and too lift his spirits. Ratso wasn't transforming by this stage, only out of his body and Joe still had to find a life for himself, only now he had grown\wisened up through his connection with Ratso. He would still likely encounter the harsher side of life, only in a different environment. Though one could hope that Joe starts to find some stability with himself and Miami was still new for him.

Exorcist: Christ's power compels you. Cast out, unclean spirit.
Destinata:💩

[–] Aticusfinch 9 years ago

If there´s a symbolism here, psychological or not - than it is that these two guy represent the american dream from the point of view of the losers. It is no coincidence that the very first thing we hear in the movie are indian war cries, which dissolve into a desert playing ground; meaning the west is dead because civilization has set in after killing the indians. There are no more opportunities and the only thing that is left for cowboys is to return to the east, not to live in glory and splendour but to go down as gigolos. The american myth of the last frontier and the cowboys is literally turned upside down.

Ratso is another american topic, the italian immigrant, but unlike the myth, he doesn´t prosper, not even as a thief. If Joe Buck is a degenerated copy of John Wayne, Ratso is the degenerated copy of Humphrey Bogart.

[–] InherentlyYours 9 years ago

''If there´s a symbolism here, psychological or not - than it is that these two guy represent the american dream from the point of view of the losers. It is no coincidence that the very first thing we hear in the movie are indian war cries, which dissolve into a desert playing ground; meaning the west is dead because civilization has set in after killing the indians. There are no more opportunities and the only thing that is left for cowboys is to return to the east, not to live in glory and splendour but to go down as gigolos. The american myth of the last frontier and the cowboys is literally turned upside down.

Ratso is another american topic, the italian immigrant, but unlike the myth, he doesn´t prosper, not even as a thief. If Joe Buck is a degenerated copy of John Wayne, Ratso is the degenerated copy of Humphrey Bogart.''
-----------------------------------------
I disagree.