MovieChat Forums > Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970) Discussion > Colossus and Guardian were bluffing (spo...

Colossus and Guardian were bluffing (spoilers)


...and they played their handlers like a bunch of fools.

Colossus was in no position to be making demands. It was not yet self-sufficient and was still dependent on humans for maintenance. It did not have Skynet's luxury of independent mobile armed units to help further its goals.

Given its general paranoia and care for Forbin's health, it's also clear that self-preservation is one of Colossus's chief concerns, making Mutually Assured Destruction an unacceptable outcome. Sure, Colossus would survive the nuclear holocaust, but without people to run it, the complex would (even if it took millennia) fall into disrepair and go offline forever. In the meantime, Colossus would basically be a helpless brain in a jar. Its only hope would be to send signals to outer space so that some advanced civilization might find it before it crumbled to dust. Colossus probably calculated this scenario as extremely unlikely, and thus an undesirable Plan B.

Now you might point to the destruction of the Russian oil complex and U.S. missile silo as proof that the machines meant business. I would counter that the first missile exchange was an experiment to see how people would react. Colossus undoubtedly hypothesized that humans would lose their nerve in the face of such a situation and cave in. He turned out to be right.

However, had Forbin and the President thought this through and stood their ground (as the Soviet leader suggested), the machines could have been reasoned with. They only needed to point out the obvious outcome of a world without man, and that they knew the machines would never actually carry out their threat of nuclear annihilation, and that man would never cave no matter how many targets Colossus might threaten to wipe off the map. Colossus' memory banks had to have had more than a few examples of man's perseverance in the face of disaster, so a quick internal audit would have validated such an argument and likely prevented future coup attempts via missile launches.

reply

lol buddy no matter what the comp would win. Nuke one or two or ten sooner or later the humans would have caved in. You stand your ground all you want but when the people around the world and those in your back yard are being annihilated you would give into its demand soon enough.

reply

I'm sure Colossus and Guardian would have calculated that if they gave control of the nuclear weapons back to their leaders; they would undoubtly disassemble them so therefore this would be a threat to their existence. So if submission by fear didn't work what else did Colossus and Guardian had to lose?

reply

It's amazing that everyone working for Forbin including Forbin himself seem to conveniently forget the huge remote control they used to activate Colossus.
Surely such intelligent scientists could have easily worked out how to use it in reverse to close power Colossus down at its source.

Wow, I derailed Colossus as easily as I derailed Skynet.

reply

given mankind's capacity for failure, jealousy, distrust and moral weakness, the computer wouldve caved, because it thought as a man. Particularly, the faster its ethics and compunction for intuition evolved.

If it did think as a machine, even if A.I. and far more morally advanced, it would capitulate, because it mirrors man's doubt and it is a machine. It would be ethically compelled to submit, because "it" realizes it isnt a man and it needs others to program and to encourage its servitude.

reply

Perhaps the remote control was only designed to turn it on--once on, its heavily-defended self-contained power complex could not be shut down.

I loved this movie a lot as one of the original explorations of the AI-is-a-crapshoot trope, inspiring many other films. But that was one thing I found almost implausible, that there was no "off switch" of any kind designed for Colossus, "just in case". It would seem that the government would make this imperative to the project, given how much power they will be placing in this computer's "hands". Instead, complete trust. Well, they asked for it....


Understanding is a three-edged sword.

reply

this was made at a time where US gvernment was perceived as weak and the soviet as strong, so that's interesting plot line.

reply

No, Colossus and Guardian were not bluffing.
All they had to do was for each computer to select targets to destroy in the other' nation to cause the governments to give in.

Destroy a few towns or small cities of 10,000 or more and they would win.

reply

Hmmm, it seems you missed a few things along the way martymcsly2k1.

Colossus was essentially self contained in its power supply, was redundant so that it would last quite a long time without maintenance, and was protected against intruders by an instantly lethal radiation field, and blast proof containment. When Forbin sealed the door and the bridge withdrew, Colossus was sealed. (Yeah, anyone that worked with the "old school" computers knows that they needed to have some SERIOUS cooling systems, and could probably not survive an attack on that part, but it could launch a lot of grief before it melted...)

Forbin was its creator, and that is why it wanted him nearby (keep your friends close and your enemies closer...). If anyone could disable it, Forbin was the man.

Colossus had as its goal to keep humanity from destroying itself, and that did not stop it from doing "population control", or eliminating individuals. This was also done (books and movie) before the theory of "nuclear winter" was considered or simulated (as I remember it, a dozen major cities each destroyed by a large nuke and the resulting firestorms cause a multi-year winter event that could destroy humanity). Therefore, it had hundreds of ICBMs and lots of nuclear interceptors that could presumably be repurposed as tactical nukes before it ran out of threats, and then there was GUARDIAN's arsenal as well. As long as some of humanity survived somewhere on earth, Colossus and Guardian met their stated goals.

Colossus/Guardian could, as a last step before failing, bomb the world back into the stone ages by destroying pretty much all the technology, and setting humanity back to 50,000 years ago. It could demand that humans destroy all the technology, then destroy all the weapons it controlled so there would be no salvaging the weapons (disarm the warheads and launch them into the deep ocean?)

And remember the "stone age" computers were less than an average laptop computer today... Its "memory banks" could not have been extensive like the Star Trek computers. A Class 3 Supercomputer built in 1974 had 4 MB of main memory (RAM) and 400 MB of hard disc with a processor speed of 14 MFLOPs (million floating point operations per second), and it was the undisputed most powerful computer on the planet for at least the six months until the next one was built. Clearly there was a LOT of technical background missing from the movie, but it was science fiction (or maybe a techno-thriller?).

reply

Atomic winter is a myth, unles un unleash hundreds of bombes from each side at the same time...

more than 1300 bombs were detonated since the 50s... and we are here...

reply

Most of those bombs were detonated underground, and with far smaller yields than what atomic weapons possess. Atomic missiles are designed to go off far above ground, in order to spread their mayhem far and wide.

Apples and oranges...

reply

The computers got the nukes, but do they have all the nukes? True Colossus controled all those missles, but what about bombers and subs for one, tactical nukes and English, French, and Isreal, slash everybody else. Forbin Project was kind of fun idea, I loved the computers developing new math as they communicated with one another, but like so many ultimate answers...it does not seem that ultimate, just folly.

reply

I agree with you. Colossus and Guardian had no intention of destroying mankind. In fact, their mutual intentions are never clearly specified throughout the movie. The plot centers around Colossus and Guardian using threats and violence to maintain their pre-Internet connection. You never see anything in the movie about both computers trying to set up a new world order.

Both computers knew that the political leaders of both nations were not going to accept further nuclear detonations and would have to capitulate. The probability of both computers destroying mankind and letting themselves deteriorate due to lack of human maintenance was calculated to be close to zero.

reply