Defensive Armament of an HE-111
Am I right in thinking that what they had to shoot with was pretty much useless?
shareThe ones in the Battle Of Britain had IIRC only three machine guns initially but most had two more added to the windows each side of the aircraft later.
Don't underestimate both the skill of the German gunners who were very well trained and that the MG15 was a reliable weapon with a high rate of fire. A surprising amount of RAF fighters were shot down by German bombers especially because they too were armed with machine guns and had to get in close to do their job.
Most bombers of that era had inadequate armament and the tactics used by the Luftwaffe and USAF proving to be insufficient especially against cannon armed fighters. The RAF had switched to night ops for similar reasons.
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Here's another factoid: The MG15s were only fed by 50 round drums rather than a belt. So after a short burst or two it was either run out of ammo in the middle of the next attack or change a drum that was only half used--kinda inefficient.
(I remember that from either something Norman Franks or Alfred Price wrote--many years ago)
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Sorry, Nick, but they were fed by a 75 round double drum magazine. You're thinking of the 50 round drums used by the MG34 and MG42 pehaps? Still, your point stands but remember light machine guns are meant to be fired in bursts not continuous fire. Sustained fire was usually done by heavier machine guns on tripods. Changing drums wasn't too difficult and could be done quite swiftly but yes, no joke in the middle of a battle!
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Thanks for the feedback, gents. In the film, the gunners are shown using short bursts so the film makers got that right. Still, wouldn't want to be in their shoes when Spitfires came diving in!
Truth be told, I think the 'Spits' spent much of their time tangling with the fighter escort while the Hurricane (who seemed to have less good publicity & was less 'glamorous') did the chopping at the bombers...
That being said, I think in the movie there are a heck of a lot more flyable spitfires in the hands of collectors than hurricanes.
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I think they only had two flying Hurricanes in the movie, plus one that could be taxied- used in the part set in France at the beginning. The rest were fibreglass and wood props.
You're right, the theory was that the Spits would deal with the fighter escorts while the Hurricanes went after the bombers but the confusion of battle often meant the plan went to pot.
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Sure but the hurri was also much less competitive against a '109 or even a '110;
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I dunno, Nick, some pilots preferred the Hurricane and they reckon it could turn tighter in a dogfight. Once they'd fitted the Hurricane with self sealing fuel tanks (cockpits fires were initially a problem- the fuel tank was in front of the pilot!) they also considered that the Hurricane could take more punishment than the Spitfire and that it was quicker and easier to repair.
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There were also fuel tanks in the wing roots, which got the blame for the greater number of severe burns among Hurricane pilots.
Marlon, Claudia & Dimby the cats 1989-2010. Clio the cat, July 1997 - 1 May 2016.
Yeah according to pilots (even the fictional ones from 'Piece of Cake') the Hurri was easy to fly, easy to taxi & could absorb more damage & easier to patch up than the 'grand dame'...rather like the Fockewulf Vs the Messerschmitt;
That being said, unlike the FW190 the hurricane was just too 'uncompetitive' performance wise compared to even the late "E" mark of 109-to say nothing of the "F" model.
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The major difference was that the Hurricane was the last gasp of an older generation of fighter technology and the Spitfire was far more modern and could be developed further- compare the MkI to the later Griffin engined ones. The Hurricane struggled in the interceptor role after 1940-41 and was sensibly developed as a ground attack aircraft where it's increasingly outdated performance as a fighter was less of an issue.
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Ordering a very good example of a non-monocoque design and a very promising monocoque at the same time worked out rather well, don't you think? Fighter Command got a fairly large number of Hurricanes before May 1940 and had no need to worry about a successor. The Hurricane was retired (in Britain) as a fighter in 1941 but that, as you point out, was the beginning of a series of fighter-bomber adaptations which had a much brighter future than the Ju 87 (which would you prefer to fly against MiG3s and Yak 9s?). I wouldn't call the Hurricane IV the end of the line either, the Typhoon and Tempest came along to supplement the vast Spitfire fleet later in the war and are obviously from the same stable.
Marlon, Claudia & Dimby the cats 1989-2010. Clio the cat, July 1997 - 1 May 2016.
Any more senokots with your tea, Vicar ?
shareOh I agree, Squeethie, we were very lucky with those two choices. The Spitfire was a perfect interceptor but the Hurricane was a great weapons platform, able to take a variety of different ordnance- 4 20mm cannon, 2 40mm cannon, 8 rockets, bombs etc, which for the most part the Spitfire couldn't.
The RAF continued to use the Hurricane in the Far East until the end of the war so it remained a useful aircraft.
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Right, sorry, the writer was referring to the 'saddle drums'.
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