MovieChat Forums > On the Buses (1969) Discussion > 'On The Buses' vs. 'Lotsa Luck'

'On The Buses' vs. 'Lotsa Luck'


They really are different in their approaches.

Working class seems to be regarded differently on both sides of the Atlantic, by the entertainment divisions if nothing else.

OTB, Stan, Jack, Blakey, Olive, Mum, Arthur, they do what they do to survive, to exist.

LL, it is still the American dreaming aspect, making a better life for yourself.

On OTB, Stan was resigned to being a bus driver and content with it. It was his way of life. In LL, Stan is trying to save money so he can one day have a color tv set.

I think if Stan on OTB wanted a color tv, he would have won.

Dom Deluise's Stan is clearly being influenced by Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden, the ultimate American dreamer, from The Honeymooners in the 1950s.

In America, we were contending with the success of All In The Family (modeled after Til Death Do Us Part), and Dom Deluise's Stan actually bears a resemblance to Carroll O'Conner's ARchie Bunker many times, tho in a younger version.

Already, I've seen two episodes of LL where STan refuses the advances of a woman. I can't see Stan in OTB ever doing that.

The only episode I saw where he did this was when the girl was supposed to Blakey's betrothed.

And the character of Arthur was overhauled to be Stan's main antagonist in the American version, as the mooching brother-in-law who was a thorn in Stan's side.

Of the eps of OTB I've seen, it was the other way around; Stan would do things to aggravate Arthur.

Blakey was removed from the American version.

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Was there an equivalent Jack Harper character in Lotsa Luck? I ask because with buses in the US being driver only operation he would not have a conductor working alongside him.

Of course the greatest bus driver on US tv is Otto, from The Simpsons.

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Corner_House_guest: "Was there an equivalent Jack Harper character in Lotsa Luck? I ask because with buses in the US being driver only operation he would not have a conductor working alongside him.

Of course the greatest bus driver on US tv is Otto, from The Simpsons."
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Correct. There are no conductors on American buses.

There was a Jack character, best friend to Stan.

Stan wasn't a bus driver on Lotsa Luck. He worked in the lost and found department, in other words, he was stationary.

Jack was a bus driver and would go to the lost and found to talk with Stan.

Stan might as well have worked in a convenience store as far observing anything on the tv show of historical significance goes.

OTB - we see the buses and how they maneuver and handle.

LL - we see one set at the bus depot, the lost and found area with a counter and shelves of rubbish in the background.

Honeymooners, I don't believe ever showed Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden on a bus, or operating a bus (there are still shots of the four cast members on a bus, so they may have gottn near a bus sometime or another), but the Honeymooners was about more than the working class, it shows a man with dreams who fails at his dreams.

Lotsa Luck's Jack is nothing like On The Buses Jack, by the way.

OTB's Jack, he was more of an accomplice for Stan.

LL's Jack was nothing more than a soundboard at times, to listen to Stan complain about Arthur. There are more episodes focusing on Stan and Arthur interacting than Stan and Jack.

Jack really only seemed to be on Lotsa Luck cuz he had been on On The Buses.

Characters like Otto who drive school buses by the way, wouldn't do that for very long, but I guess since the Simpsons are perpetually stuck at being kids and Maggie will forever be a baby, then it fits for Otto to constantly be the bus driver.

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Thanks for the info, I'm always fascinated by US remakes of British sitcoms. Few came back this way, "All in the family" was only shown for a few episodes at the time of the bicentennial to show UK viewers an example of a popular US tv show.
The Office - An American workplace is shown over here.
Reggie, the US version of The Fall & Rise of Reginald Perrin was shown in the early hours of the morning as filler on a terrestial station. It is sufficiently different to engage an audience who will have seen the original and not suffer by comparison.
Sanford & Son, Lotsa Luck werent shown over here. Dunno if the US version of Space currently in production will be.
Only a pilot of the US version of "Dads Army" called "The Rear Guard" was made. They chose to redo the episode where the platoon guard a captured U Boat crew. Clips of it have been shown on a TV doc about transatlantic remakes.

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Well, the big three American remakes are All In The Family (Til Death Do Us Part), Sanford and Son (Steptoe and Son) and Three's Company (Man About the House).

I got six episodes of Til Death on dvd, and it is an incredible contrast to All In The Family. The funny thing about Archie Bunker was he was so arrogant in his ideas, even to the point of getting the wrong words for things, such as when he referred to a streaker (or Mike was a protesting nudist) as going around 'with his gentiles hanging out.'

I looked over Til Death, and Elsie was nowhere near as dense as Edith Bunker, tho Edith eventually gave way to moralistic issues and imposed them on Archie.

Today, All In The Family has a peculiar watch to it. Archie is supposed to be the bigot on the outside, but now he watches like a man standing alone with his convictions.

Sanford and Son, likewise, watches different from Steptoe (which I have seen only one episode of).

Sanford broke racial barriers, as well as was something totally unseen on American tv. If you have ever heard of the Brady Bunch, then you might like to know it was Sanford and Son on the opposite channel that got Brady Bunch cancelled, when they aired opposite one another on Friday night.

I know nothing about Man About the House, tho I have seen the first episode of it lined up with Three's Company and they have the same setup (the man is found asleep in the bathtub after a party).

three's company ran for a good decade over here. I understand Man About the House spawned a spinoff with the landlords, Pete and Gladys, was it?

Three's Company (or 3C) likewise had one with its first landlords, the Ropers. That show only lasted one season.

All In The Family holds the record for most spinoffs by the way.

The Bunkers black neighbors, the Jeffersons, got their own show which had a good run.

Edith's cousin, Maude (played by Bea Arthur of Golden Girls), appeared in one episode and told Archie off and got her own show. Her best friend on 'Maude' was played by Rue McLanahan, who rejoined Arthur on Golden Girls, as Blanche.

Maude had a maid, Florida, who got her own black family show, Good Times, which had a very young Janet Jackson (Michael's sister) appear as an abused girl. Strong standout episodes.

the Jeffersons' maid, Florence, would get her own show, tho it didn't run a season.

The Bunkers daughter, Gloria, would get her own show and it too was cancelled after one year.

Lotsa Luck, by the way, was a big bomb. I had never heard of it.

I obtained about 12 episodes of On The Buses and Hi De Hi each and thought both shows were fabulous. I then learned about Lotsa Luck and bought it.

It doesn't compare. Lotsa Luck was trying for All In The Family. The first episode of LL had them installing a new toilet (All In The Family was the first show on American tv to have a toilet flush). Dom Deluise even looked like a younger Carroll O'Conner (Archie Bunker).

Never heard of Reggie. Tho I've never seen Reginald Perrin, I do know what that is, cuz I tracked down Rising Damp and was referred to Reginald Perrin from there.

Rising Damp, by the way, never made it to America.

Never saw the Dad's Army attempt either.

I think we get The Office here, but I don't watch it.

The last remake crossing the ocean must be the Friends-Coupling-Coupling fiasco.

Friends apparently spawned a UK version called Coupling.

Coupling was such a hit, I take it, they tried to Americanize it here, with an American version of Coupling.

It didnt catch on.

Men Behaving Badly had a short-lived american version, with Rob Schneider and Justine Bateman. I didn't watch it.

Fawlty Towers had two remakes, "Amanda's" with Bea Arthur (essentially she was Sybill. Basil was removed. Didn't last one season) and "Royal Payne" with John Larroquette and JoBeth Williams. that one was cancelled after one season.

Absolutely Fabulous had two remakes.

High Society with Mary McDonnell and Jean Smart. The problem here was McDonnell (basically Saunders character) wasn't a terrible mother. These women were just extremely shallow. Neither character struggled with substance abuse either. May have been recovering, but they weren't struggling with it.

The second remake, Cybill, with Cybill Shepherd and Christine Baranski as the Patsy character, faired no better, even with Emmy noms (and Baranski won). It was just the same as High Society.

Shepherd was a remotely good, concerned mother.

Hollywood just can't grasp the woman being to blame for neglecting her kids like Jennifer Saunders did.

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I never realised "Cybill" was a remake of AbFab. The subsidiary characters are very different Abfab - one son ,Serge, who we never see, one sensible daughter, one ex husband who is only in one episode, a mother played by June Whitfield and lots and lots of drinking and smoking.

Coupling was inspired by the premise of Friends - three women and three men thirtysomething urban professionals in London, but it had sexually explicit dialogue and hardly any regular characters outside the six. I cant remember any of the plots being the same as Friends episodes.

There were two spin offs from Man About the House -

"George and Mildred" the landlord and landlady moved to a posher area. It only ended because the actress playing Mildred died. I'd heard there was a US version called "The Ropers" but I've never seen it.

The other spin off was "Robins Nest" where the young man (called Robin Tripp over here) runs a restaurant with that name. The only connection to MATH was the character had the same name. He never referred to his days housesharing with two women, one of whom married his brother. Played by Richard Sullivan and his real life girlfriend Tessa Wyatt played his wife. Ran for several series.

Till Death Do Us Part spawned only a continuation of Alf Garnett in "In Sickness and in Health" when the actress who played his wife was wheelchair bound and in a later series after she had died.

Alf Garnett was put on TV commenting on football whenever West Ham got to a cup final. This ended after the writer Johnny Speight died. Must have been galling for West Ham fans to have Warren Mitchell (who supports their London rivals Spurs) portray them as ignorant bigots anytime they had some success.

Maude was shown over here but only very late at night. The Golden Girls was on in primetime on Channel Four and was very popular.


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Corner House guest: "I never realised "Cybill" was a remake of AbFab. The subsidiary characters are very different Abfab - one son ,Serge, who we never see, one sensible daughter, one ex husband who is only in one episode, a mother played by June Whitfield and lots and lots of drinking and smoking.

Coupling was inspired by the premise of Friends - I cant remember any of the plots being the same as Friends episodes.

There were two spin offs from Man About the House -

"George and Mildred" the landlord and landlady moved to a posher area.
The other spin off was "Robins Nest" where the young man (called Robin Tripp over here) runs a restaurant with that name. Ran for several series.

Maude was shown over here but only very late at night. The Golden Girls was on in primetime on Channel Four and was very popular.
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I didn't realize Cybill was a remake (or inspired) by AbFab until I heard it somewhere.

American television will REFUSE to have a mother be a horrible person like they were in AbFab. It won't happen. And be a central character like that? No way.

And I don't think either show, Cybill or High Society had the grandmother character, which was odd.

"Bubbles" was in High Society, but again, she was a competent woman who the two ladies just didn't like.

Three's Company went thru some lady roommate changes. Susanne Somers 'called in sick' to hold out for more money and was replaced by two other ladies, but the chemistry with the first three performers (John Ritter as Jack Tripper, Joyce DeWitt as Janet Wood and Somers as Chrissy Snow) just wasn't the same.

In the 'final season' of Three's Company, DeWitt left the show (or was written out) and Jack married a woman who suddenly turned up and the show evolved into Three's A Crowd where he was supposed to butt heads with her father, played by Robert Mandan. Totally didn't work.

Mandan, by the way, appeared on a show in the 1970s called Soap, if you have ever seen it, and his co-star was Richard Muligan, who appeared in what was the Americanized version of Reggie. I read about it, and after having seen Rising Damp, I can tell you that Mulligan is NOTHING like Rossitter, so that was a big miss.

i thought it was interesting in one ep of Til Death I have seen, they refer to Elsie's cousin Maude. Pity they didn't get Joan Sims to play that part, instead of that English granny character.

Sims would have ruled as the English equivalent to the American Maude.


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Soap was the best US sitcom to make it over here. Broke taboos and barriers without being preachy like MASH. Benson was probably the funniest spin off until Frasier.

The American Reggie was shown over here late on a Sunday night, after everybody with a job has gone to bed. Thats no comment on the quality of Reggie because even Seinfeld, Arrested Devlopment, Thirty Rock had the same treatment. Only Channel Four, set up to give independent producers a chance, shows US sitcoms in primetime.

In the 70's Rhoda , Paper Moon and MASH were shown in rotation at 9pm on Tuesdays on BBC2 in a strand called Yankee Treble - a reference to a combination bet on several horse races like a trifecta in the US - so you had an episode of MASH every three weeks. Luckily I like all three shows so didnt miss weeks.
It followed a sports programme Floodlit Rugby League - an extra competition solely created for TV so rugby league clubs would get income from midweek night games televised live and so have an incentive to install floodlights. If the match over ran or kick off had been delayed, then tough, no sitcom.

Because there are no adverts on the BBC, US sitcoms only last twenty-five minutes. So the news on BBC1 at 9pm finished at 9.25 so viewers could then switch to BBC2 without missing the beginning of whatever followed MASH/Rhoda/Paper Moon.

This also inhibits scheduling them in primetime as there is an increasing tendency to have programmes start on the hour and half hour until after the late film or late news.

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I have not a clue what the American REggie was like, but I do know Richard Mulligan was a one-trick pony at that time, after Soap, and everything he did was his character from Soap.

I can safely guess that this is what Reggie was. He eventually broke out into another characterization tho, winning an Emmy for Empty Nest (a sort-of spinoff from Golden Girls. I think he was one of the ladies' doctor on Golden Girls. He appeared with the intention that he would get his own show).

MASH, Rhoda, Paper Moon? lol!

that is a set, I must say!

MASH ran for what, 13 years?

Rhoda had the highest rated wedding over here for a while, tho the show tanked very quickly.

And Paper Moon? Wow, that show didn't make it past one year, did it? And then it vanished. Never seen that one again, tho I do recall some of the show, very little.

I remember Jodie Foster "My name is Addie Pray and you smell," she said to some guy.

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One of the effects of the decline in cinema attendances in the UK since 1950 was that many sitcoms made a ninety minute film. On The Buses was the no.1 box office in the UK in 1971.
In the US of course a lot of sitcoms were from successful movies - MASH, Paper Moon.

MASH outgrew the other sitcoms in the Yankee Treble and was shown in the same slot 9pm on BBC2 Tuesdays until it ended. I'm sure you're aware of the major difference between screenings in the US and UK, the removal of the laugh track. When they show clips on documentaries or a friend has a DVD the laugh track is so intrusive and false.

I dont know if the BBC took the laugh track off to appease the Korean Veterans association here who had taken the view that the war wasnt a subject for comedy.

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Corner_House_guest: "One of the effects of the decline in cinema attendances in the UK since 1950 was that many sitcoms made a ninety minute film. On The Buses was the no.1 box office in the UK in 1971.
In the US of course a lot of sitcoms were from successful movies - MASH, Paper Moon.

MASH outgrew the other sitcoms in the Yankee Treble and was shown in the same slot 9pm on BBC2 Tuesdays until it ended. I'm sure you're aware of the major difference between screenings in the US and UK, the removal of the laugh track. When they show clips on documentaries or a friend has a DVD the laugh track is so intrusive and false.

I dont know if the BBC took the laugh track off to appease the Korean Veterans association here who had taken the view that the war wasnt a subject for comedy."
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I see where several Britcoms had movies, such as On The Buses (I got one of their movies, as a matter of fact), Are You Being Served and Rising Damp.

No, this is unheard of in America, and yes, many American tv shows spun off from movies.

We've even had things like buffy the Vampire Slayer, a so-so, now-forgotten movie that apparently had a hit series (I never watched it).

Paper Moon, the series is virtually unheard of in America. No one saw it after it was cancelled.

I see where several shows that failed in America and then vanished ended up in the UK and Europe and elsewhere, as all the IMDB reviews seem to be from Europe or Australia.

I remembered a show called The REd Hand Gang and looked it up and saw nothing but UK or Europe reviews. I think I'm the only American who reviewed it. lol!

As for the laughtrack, it was always considered phony and despised, if it was what we call 'canned laughter'.

I got the movie 'Cor Blimey' about Sid James and Barbara Windsor and the Kenneth Williams character talks about something he appeared on having recorded laughter and he hated to think that the laughs might have been for Sid in Man About the House.

Not a clue what 'Man About The House' was, by the way.

MASH began with a laughtrack, but eventually it was dropped over here. It's happened with other sitcoms, but I can't think of which ones right now, but MASH was one of them. The BBC didn't remove the laughtrack, the show's producers did.

We watch many American sitcoms, or several, I should say, that begin with laughtracks, canned laughter, then suddenly the episodes vanish.

Happy Days, if you have ever seen it, is one in reverse.

the first two seasons were done with canned laughter, then the show was filmed before a live audience.

Some viewers prefer the first two seasons, mainly for how the episodes are quieter, not for the canned laughter.

But I have heard about the problem with jokes written for the audience to laugh at moments, and they don't and how it screws something up. I have never quite caught on to the difference in humor.

I tell people about stuff I have seen on Hi De Hi or AbFab or Britta's, and they just kind of look at me and go 'you got that dry British humor.'

I'm not sure what they mean. lol!

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Man about the House was the UK original of Three's Company. Same script and plots. A documentary I saw about 20 years ago compared scenes from the two shows to demonstrate why canned laughter is used.

The only US shows to have film spin offs that I can think of are animated series - South Park and The Simpsons.

Plenty from the UK though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_based_on_British_sitcoms

Advantage to the cinemas was the potential audience of 15-20 million viewers and the low publicity costs. The viewers got a 90 minute big screen version in colour of their favourite show. Nowadays there would be a extended episode released on DVD only.

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Corner House Guest: "The only US shows to have film spin offs that I can think of are animated series - South Park and The Simpsons."
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Never heard of Star Trek? lol!

We've had shows in the past go into movies, with reworked casts, such as Addams Family, Charlie's Angels, Beverly Hillbillies, Brady Bunch, Bewitched (never seen the movie, tho I understand it was different from the show), Little Rascals, Leave It To Beaver, Dragnet, etc.

The Munsters apparently had motion pictures back when the show was on the air, mid-1960s, but I have never seen this movie.

Get Smart did have a motion picture movie and a tv movie. Neither is regarded very highly.

Beverly Hillbillies had both a tv reunion movie with surviving cast members and a revamped motion picture.

Sgt. Bilko had a motion picture made of it, with the unlikliest playing Phil Silvers, Steve Martin?

Currently Sex In The city, a show I have NEVER watched, and I proudly say this, is going into movies. I don't intend on seeing the movie either.

Lost IN space had the '97 motion picture. Again, a revamped cast.

Fat Albert, the cartoon, became a movie.

But other than Star Trek and the 1960s Munsters movie, none of these had the original casts in them in the original characters.

There was a 1980s revival of the Munsters, and have been revamped version since then several times over.

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I forgot star trek, I'm not really interested in sci-fi. Although those Star Trek movies and all the ones you mention (except The Munsters and Get Smart) were made long after the TV series ended and often after the main actors had died.

The UK sitcom films introduced new characters and outside locations to fill ninety minutes rather than thirty. The only actor change I can recall is in 1972's "Alf Garnett Saga". In the TV show "Till Death do us part" and the first film the daughter and son in law were played by Una Stubbs and Tony Booth. In the second film Adrienne Posta and Paul Angelis took over these roles.

BTW Tony Booth's son-in-law is former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair.

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That's interesting to know about Tony Booth, Mike from Til Death.

That seems to be about the only name that transferred to the American All in The Family. The American family is Archie, Edith, Gloria and Mike.

I sent off for a Coronation Street assortment (first five episodes and the 40th anniversary program). Interesting how this show is virtually unknown in America.

I saw in one wedding from the show a very white-haired Tony booth stood in the background.

the first thing I thought with the current British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, was how much his name sounded like Gordon Brittas.

I think other than Star Trek, whatever the 1960s Munsters movies were and Don Adams appearing in the Get Smart motion picture, all other American reunion movies with whatever they could assemble of the original cast have been done for tv.

gilligan's Island first reunion movie was 1978. All the cast was still alive and appeared, save for Tina Louise, who played Ginger Grant the movie star.

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Tony Booth was in a long relationship with Pat Phoenix who played Elsie Tanner in Coronation Street, eventually they married just before she died from cancer.

Most people of 30+ in the UK when they hear the name of the prime minister think of "Golden Brown" by The Stranglers.

Gilligans Island was shown in the UK I am told but I have never seen it.

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I've been reading about Coronation Street online and have read how popular Elsie Tanner was, and Pat Phoenix. Totally boggles my mind.

There was no way a woman in a tv show of any kind, with full grown children, was going to be popular in America at that time.

Nine times out of ten, in any format, but especially soaps, the mother would emerge more interesting as the show's creators tried to make the teen ager appealing to a young audience, but off the top of my head, I can't recall a one.

As for Gilligan's Island, it was Stan Laurel (firstmate), Oliver Hardy (skipper), Marilyn Monroe, Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz, Albert Einstein (well, a variation of. He was younger and American) and Mr. and Mrs. Nelson Rockefeller marooned on an island.

The show ran for three years and was prematurely cancelled. At first the network was going to cancel Gunsmoke, which at that time had run for ten years, but the wife of a network exec liked Gunsmoke, so at best, two half hour sitcoms had to go, and Gilligan's Island was one of them.

The castaways remained unrescued.

Five of the castmembers reunited to do an animated version in '75, providing their own voices. At best, the best thing about the cartoon was the recited theme song, since none of them were capable singers.

Then in '78, they finally reunited again for a rescue movie, tho one of them didnt want anything to do with the show anymore, so she was replaced (Tina Louise, who played the actress, Ginger Grant, imagine a red-headed Marilyn Monroe).

The movie ended with the castaways being marooned again on the same island. Total hokum. but fans of the show (like myself) loved it.

A second movie was made, they were rescued again, and this time, they turned the island into a vacation resort. Kind of Love Boat on land.

A third movie was made, the totally outlandish, Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island.

by this time, Jim Backus, who played Thurston Howell III, was in bad health, and a suddenly fabricated Thurston Howell IV was brought in to replace him.

There would be one more cartoon, Gilligan's Planet, where the castaways got off the island and crash-landed on another planet. Terrible.

the biggest appeal about Gilligan's Island was how much like the characters they played the actors were. Cast members would appear on game shows and it was amusing how prim (the Howells) or analytical (the Professor) or boisterous (the skipper) they would be, depending on the character and actor.

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Coronation Street is the biggest soap in the UK and has been running since 1960. Only rivalled in the ratings by the BBC's Eastenders since 1985. I dont watch it any more. Its on four times a week, plus repeats and omnibus editions (where a weeks worth of episodes are run back to back). There is a long tradition in it of using comedians and entertainers in serious roles as well as actors. Ian McKellen was in it a couple of years ago. Both Ben Kingsley
and Davy Jones of the Monkees were in it before they hit it big.

Harlem Globetrotters used to come to London once a year in the Easter holidays and it would be shown in the early evening. Their animated cartoon version ran here as well.

I only know Jim Backus as the voice of Mister Magoo.

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I saw some of Davy Jones, apparently on Coronation Street, as a small child, and was intrigued by it, as it reminded me of me own mum. lol!

Saw it on a special about the Monkees.

We only get the animated Globetrotters in their three Scooby Doo appearances from 1972, two years after the first Globetrotters cartoon.

I sent off for a Globetrotters tape of that cartoon and was surprised by what I didn't remember.

There would be a later Globetrotters cartoon, the Super Globetrotters cartoon, where they had super powers (Curly Neal turned into a basketball, etc.)

Everyone remembers Sweet Lou Dunbar taking whatever weapon he needed out of his afro. That was his power. He could find anything up there.

I got a few episodes of that one recorded by chance off Cartoon Network.

Backus as Mr. Magoo. One and the same. He'll always be Thurston Howell III to me, but I gather he did some westerns as well.

I only recently learned he is somebody's father (James Dean, Natalie Wood or Sal Mineo) in Rebel Without a Clause.

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Scooby doo is rhyming slang here for clue. Example "I havent got a scooby"

There were several TV series and pop groups that had animated versions. Star Trek, Harlem Globetrotters, Jackson Five and I kid you not The Beatles. Not Yellow Submarine but a series of shorts involving an animated fab four voiced by other Liverpudlians getting involved in adventures. Two songs in each show, with animated illustrations. Early (1965) version of the pop video.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058790/

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Corner House Guest: "Scooby doo is rhyming slang here for clue. Example "I havent got a scooby"

There were several TV series and pop groups that had animated versions. Star Trek, Harlem Globetrotters, Jackson Five and I kid you not The Beatles. Not Yellow Submarine but a series of shorts involving an animated fab four voiced by other Liverpudlians getting involved in adventures. Two songs in each show, with animated illustrations. Early (1965) version of the pop video."
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Interesting about Scooby doo being slang. The story is the dog was named from the Frank Sinatra song, Strangers In The Night, when he goes 'Scooby Dooby doo' at the end.

Oh, I had a very bad day. Had a puncture on the way home.

Anyway, yes, there were several animated versions of other shows, live shows and what-have-you. Aside from the Beatles program you are speaking about, I've seen those others.

Star Trek left the air in 1969, the animated cartoon came about in '71, with voicework from all the original actors, I believe.

Jackson Five was a Rankin-Bass cartoon. I've seen it in about the past 7 years now, having seen it back in the early 1970s.

There was also an Osmonds cartoon, also by Rankin-Bass. Rankin-Bass made many of our holiday programs, if you have ever seen any of them. Perhaps the best known now is Year Without A Santa Claus (1974).

If you've seen Batman and Robin, with Arnold Schwarzenegger, the song played in there "I'm Mr. White Christmas" that was from Year Without.

Anyhoo, Addams Family has been animated twice, Globetrotters twice.

Munsters had an animated one-shot, with a teen-aged Eddie Munster.

We had a program called The Saturday Superstar Movies, 1972, which was various characters from all over who met up or were animated. Gidget, Nanny and the Professor (Juliet Mills), Lost In Space.

From there, Roseanne Barr Arnold, if you know who she is, was animated briefly, MC Hammer had a cartoon, New Kids On The Block was animated.

Rick Springfield was even animated, about 1973, in a cartoon called Mission: Magic.

And of course, many of the characters who appeared in the 1972 scooby movies were real, save for Speed Buggy, Jeannie and Josie.

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Roseanne was shown on Channel Four over here on Friday nights 9pm. Got about four million viewers. Never saw the animated version.

We got the Osmonds, Jackson Five, Star Trek, Harlem Globetrotters over here, none of the others. Who is Rick Springfield?

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Corner House Guest: "Who is Rick Springfield?"
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LOL!

Well, he's Australian! lol!

Since he wasn't limited to America by birth, I erroneously deduced he must have some international appeal, but I seem to have been incorrect.

I have never quite understood the career of Rick Springfield.

Checking IMDB, his first credit is the cartoon, when he was 24. the cartoon presented him as tho he was a rock star. I'm not sure where. They could have used Davy Jones or Mickey Dolenz, if they wanted a recognizeable person, or maybe they wanted somebody 'new'.

After that, I knew about his American television appearances of varying degrees, such as on Battlestar Galactica and Wonder Woman, but he was never a name, he was just 'starring'.

Don't recall in the cartoon, but it seems by the time he was appearing on these shows, he had lost his Aussie accent, which I had heard he worked at doing.

Now how it all exactly played out next, I don't recall.

We had a daytime soap opera called General Hospital that suddenly was a ratings sensation, with two young lovers, Luke Spencer and Laura Baldwin-Webber, running off together to stop the mob.

It seems that a few years after this, Springfield showed up as Dr. Noah Drake to 'cut his acting chops'.

Now I remember all of this, I watched the show back then. I don't exactly know why he was appearing on the soap, but around this time, his songs started making the radios, but they were strictly only appealing to teen-aged girls (he was a major league teen heartthrob, about his only appeal actually).

He then seemed to have left the soap and ventured into movies, tho according to IMDB, he only did one, Hard To Hold, low-grade, screaming girls stuff.

Everything after that was forgettable, and he often seemed rather bitter that he wasn't regarded as some influential rock figure, but he clearly appealed to squealing girls.

He actually had a song that compared himself to Bruce Springsteen (do you know who that is? American rocker who is highly regarded for his lyrics. Not a fave of mine, but he is called the Boss, like Frank Sinatra was called the Chairman of the Board, James Brown was Godfather of Soul, Aretha Franklin was Queen of Soul, etc.), but he was never regarded in the same league as Springsteen.

Last he was heard of, he had returned to GH, again as Dr. Noah Drake. I think he has left again. It was commented on how old he looks. Completely washed up, definitely.

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Bruce Springsteen has had hit albums in the UK and is well known. "Born to Run" was voted the best song ever on Radio 1 the BBC's pop music station.

Rick Springfield however...if you asked people here who Rick Springfield is they'd guess he was Dusty's brother.

Mind you no-one in the UK has heard of Ted Nugent other than an appearance on a BBC documentary about the NRA.

Dr. Noah Drake? In Friends Joey plays Dr Drake Romare in Days of our lives. Is this a satire on Dr Noah Drake ?

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Corner House guest: "Bruce Springsteen has had hit albums in the UK and is well known. "Born to Run" was voted the best song ever on Radio 1 the BBC's pop music station.

Rick Springfield however...if you asked people here who Rick Springfield is they'd guess he was Dusty's brother.

Mind you no-one in the UK has heard of Ted Nugent other than an appearance on a BBC documentary about the NRA.

Dr. Noah Drake? In Friends Joey plays Dr Drake Romare in Days of our lives. Is this a satire on Dr Noah Drake ?"
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Well, at least you've heard of Bruce Springsteen! lol!

No, I can honestly say that Rick Springfield is in NO WAY related to Dusty Springfield, especially where music is concerned!

Springfield was just wanting to be a 'rock star' and thought screaming masses was the way to do it, so when he got the screaming girls, he couldn't understand why there was no prestige that went with it. He seemed befuddled by why he wasn't highly regarded.

I saw him on an awards show and he had a definite chip on his shoulder as he read out who the winner of the award was.

No idea who an equivalent would be in the UK. Yea, we both have bubble gum singers, but I don't think I've ever seen one as bitter as this guy. He apparently 'suffered from depression' as well, but that's treatable.

How on Earth did we start talking about this clown? lol!

Oh, yea, Mission: Magic.

Funny thing is, I actually heard a Rick Springfield song on the radio one morning, and it was just a nice, nostalgic 1980s song, no need for him to be christened the Pope of Pop, or whatever it was he wanted.

As for Joey's tenure on Days of Our Lives as Dr. Drake Ramoray (like the spelling you gave. Interesting to see how the American accent is interpreted in reverse. I've often watched British shows and thought I heard one name or word, then was very surprised to see it in writing with an entirely differently spelling), you do know Days of Our Lives is an actual soap opera over here.

When Dr. Drake Ramoray was killed off in the elevator accident (or lift accident), the actor playing the other doctor, if he was named or not, I can't recall, was an actual actor from the show at that time. He isn't on the show anymore. His real name was Roarke Chrichlow and the character was Dr. Mike Horton, played by about a half-dozen fellows now.

It kind of mirrored a villianous character that was killed off on a show at that time, called L.A. Law, when Rosalind Shays (Diana Muldaur, perhaps best known for Star Trek appearances, old and new). She turned to enter an elevator and the car wasn't there and she plunged down the shaft.

Now as for if Drake Ramoray's name can be traced back to Noah Drake on General Hospital, . . . . . mmmm, maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised. Both names got that slick, attention-getting polish to them, don't they?

There hasn't been a Drake anything on any soap opera since Noah Drake, so maybe. Joey was about as believable as a doctor as Rick Springfield was.

I had never made that connection before. lol!



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There is a guy called Robbie Williams over here who was in a hugely successful boy band "Take That" then a solo career. Never broke in the states though. Like Rick he has depression.
On a radio show the DJ asked the question "Robbie Williams is to make a guest star appearance in Desperate Housewives as one half of a gay couple. True or false?"

I rang in to say it must be false as no-one in the US has heard of him.
Apparently its true.........

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Corner House guest: "There is a guy called Robbie Williams over here who was in a hugely successful boy band "Take That" then a solo career. Never broke in the states though. Like Rick he has depression.
On a radio show the DJ asked the question "Robbie Williams is to make a guest star appearance in Desperate Housewives as one half of a gay couple. True or false?"

I rang in to say it must be false as no-one in the US has heard of him.
Apparently its true........."
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I've heard of this Robbie Williams, as I would catch his name in the papers over here, and I would automatically think of the American actor-comedian Robin Williams, perhaps you've heard of him from movies and such. Bit of an ego as well, if you ask me.

And Take That had a one hit wonder over here, if you can believe that.

"Want You Back" or whatever the correct title of it was. Song was endlessly played on the radio back then, but it was never a favorite. It was just one of those that would get alot of airplay.

and the chap who sang the solo lyrics there, Gary Barlow, I believe, who went on with a solo career, he had a one hit song over here as well. That was about mid-1990s, cuz I remember him on a daytime talk show I watched back then.

The talk show host, Rosie O'Donnell (if you don't know who she is, don't worry about it. Currently she is about one of the most annoying people we got over here and she knows it. She's laying kind of low these days) commented on how Barlow looked like Tom Cruise, and he did a very incredible imitation of Cruise.

I watched the Diana birthday anniversary (recorded it off to a disk, actually) and Take That reunited and they sang Want You Back. Rather liked the a capella bit they did there.

But Robbie Williams himself, no, he's virtually unknown over here, tho I did send off for the soundtrack to the Rowan Atkinson movie, Johnny English, as I liked Williams song he did for that movie, Man For All Seasons.

In case we havent discussed this yet, my mother is English and my father is American, and my brothers and sisters and I have enjoyed some of the same English culture many times, But Johnny English seems to be the one where I stood alone.

lol!

Nobody else liked it! One of them had it on dvd and it got handed to me and I thought it was hilarious!

"Not at all like Mr. Bean."

I knew Atkinson could do more, as I had seen him in Thin Blue Line and Black Adder. I don't think some of my sibs have seen those shows.

But I thought JE was funny.

"Not at all like Mr. Bean. I thought he was going to do Mr. Bean."

As for Desperate Housewives, that's in the same boat with Sex In The City, or Sex And The City, whatever it is called. Don't watch it.

Robbie Williams could go on there and portray Prince William, I won't be seeing it.

Talking about these guys and how they were popular in the UK and elsewhere, but were below so-so in America, reminded me of Boyzone, who were apparently popular everywhere except in the states as well.

I saw them in the Bono video, Sweetest Thing, and caught them on a special for Andrew Lloyd Webber's birthday and they were just eating up the popularity, but then they too appeared on Rosie O'Donnell's talk show to promote the song used in Notting Hill and the audience was unresponsive.

The first one who sang looked mortified, the second one, the blonde, he tried keeping it energetic, but again, the audience wasn't impressed.

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Robin Williams is big here as well. Rosie O'Donnell is big everywhere :-)
Seen her in a few films.
I avoid boy bands, Diana tributes, Desperate Housewives, SATC. I think Rowan Atkinson is funny in everything except Mr Bean. I dont get the character nor have the sympathy with him necessary to laugh. Rowan Atkinson has been on TV here for nearly thirty years now, but his biggest success is as Mr Bean.

Getting back to the topic of TV shows transferring to film, Sex and The City is out now, blowing another hole in my theory that US shows go from big screen to TV and that UK ones went in the opposite direction.

My late mother was born in England, Dad is Irish. His mum, my paternal grandmother, lived in NYC 1910-1923. Several of her siblings and cousins emigrated,stayed and made a good life in the states.

The biggest act here who never made it in the states is Sir Cliff Richard. He has been on TV and having hit records since 1958. He has actually sold more singles in the UK than the Beatles but has only had small infrequent US tours.



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I 'understand' the Mr. Bean character (when he was going to sit in the parking garage and wait for another vehicle to enter, then he would race out instead of paying at the gate, I completely understood that and wondered what was so funny about it. Made perfectly good sense to me), but I must admit, I find Atkinson much more amusing in both Black Adder and especially Thin Blue Line, I thought he was brilliant as the police chief, so I really dont understand why Bean 'caught on' in the states like he did.

Atkinson can clearly deliver the English dialogue, so I think he is just wasted in a mute character like Bean.

Cliff Richard did indeed have some songs over here, mainly in the 1970s. I remember being incredibly surprised to learn he was singing in the UK back in the 1960s, cuz I've heard stuff by Herman's Hermits, but I don't know anything by Richard from the 1960s.

I used to always confuse him with Kenny Loggin.

I sent off for the Coronation Street anniversary set (a show that is just unknown over here in the states, but Canada watches it. Go figure. We don't watch East Enders either, by the way. Don't watch any British soaps), with the first five episodes on it (in about the third ep, Ena Sharple states when her mum passed, "she sat up, broke wind and died". I can tell you right now, there was NO mention of anyone 'breaking wind' anywhere in America; tv, film, soaps, news. NOTHING!) and Cliff Richard was seen speaking about the show.

I've no idea why. Did he appear on there? I got the impression he would have liked to. I think a song of his was used in there somewhere, wasn't it?

I would say Cliff Richard made a bit more of a dent than did Take That 20 years later. He had more songs than they did, I know, so he held on a tad.

As for the Sex and the City movie, that is somebody's fluke. That show appealed to a minute audience, the movie appealed to the same minute audience.

Feminist audience? I don't think so. I would consider it a shallow, narrow-minded audience.

The movie opened at #1 its first week, because it had no competition when it premiered, so then fans of the show could declare the women were a hit.

The movie fell to fourth place its second week, falling behind Indiana Jones, which opened BEFORE SATC.

I think the movie was to 'tie up loose ends' from the show, but I wouldn't know what those would be.

Had any one of the actresses gone into another venture or show or something and it bombed, the movie never would have come about.

When Friends went off the air, Matt LeBlanc got his own show, Joey, and it was given the same timeslot that Kelsey Grammer's Frasier had had.

The anticipation was that Joey would do the exact same thing Frasier had done; a solo character from a hit show that had a long run would get his own show and also have a long run.

Grammer played Frasier Crane for 20 or 21 years, a record in American primetime tv (equalled only by James Arness for Matt Dillon in Gunsmoke).

Joey was cancelled its second season.

Speculation about a possible Friends movie was put to rest with Joey.

That would have been all it would have taken to do in SATC. Maybe that has happened now.

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Joey was on over here, not that bad. "Back to You" starts here on More4 this week with Kelsey Grammer and Patricia Heaton from ELR. ELR is shown at breakfast time over here along with repeats of Will & Grace and Frasier. Channel Four, which shows lots of US shows, needed filler when it took its long running Big Breakfast show off the air and replaced it with RI:SE with smug young presenters who drove viewers away with a stick. 5 weeks later RI:SE was cancelled and the staff havent worked in TV since.

I watched the first episode of SATC and felt depressed that such characters could exist , that it was time for the human race to die out and let the dolphins take over Earth. So I've avoided it since.

Coronation Street doesnt use music apart from over the credits, so I dont know why Cliff Richard was on the anniversary video. Maybe because he was around in showbiz when it started in 1960. Laurence Olivier, Ralph Richardson and John Gielgud were fans of the show.


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Back To You has been cancelled. What little I watched of it, there was too much plot with Grammer and Heaton (they had a history and a child) for the two Emmy award winning performers to interact, plus it seemed that there was too much uninteresting stuff with the supporting cast, as tho Grammer and Heaton were being given a break.

They would have been the only reason to watch the show, to see how they work with one another, but very little came of them being together.

I've not watched one bit of SATC. Can't stand Sarah Jessica Parker.

When I was in England in '02, I caught one morning show and kept getting extensive coverage of your Big Brother. Wasnt sure what to make of any of it. It all looked very 'Americanized' but it wasn't quite like what they do here in America either. the English morning programmers (Good God, don't ask me what I watched. Actually I did write down somebody's name or something and the paper keeps turning up on my desk here, so maybe I'll find it someday) seemed to be having more fun if you ask me, while the American ones take themselves a bit too seriously, with an air of 'you can't make it thru the day without us here to help you, you know that!'

Well, if you don't know why Cliff Richard was on the Coronation Street anniversary program, then I certainly can't volunteer any information!! lol!

They showed him first in a clip where some children were singing in a black and white scene, don't know if Richard 'wrote the song' or the piece was from a song of his from the 1960s.

I would have to go back and watch the program (not a problem really. It isn't quite an hour long and I've looked over it several times to just try to figure out what the show is all about. I thought at first several of the women were drag queens, their voices were so deep, such as Diedre and Julie Goodyear) to see what all he said. He said he wished he had appeared on the show, don't know why he would have wanted to or why he didn't, it seems all your PMs have shown up (Maggie was shown entering the Rover's Return).

John Mills narrated, Sir John, that is.

I've read about it online, tho it isn't mentioned on the program, about Olivier being a fan of Hilda Ogden, and that her departure from the show was one of the highest rated episodes.

They certainly do stay on the show for quite a long time, don't they? You won't find an American program running that long, not in primetime. You saw how long our primetime soaps ran. Barely ten years at best.

Our daytime programs run quite a long time, but its rare for somebody to stay with the show like that, as well as several actors. 30 years? Unheard of.

I see where one fellow has been on Coronation Street from the start (which I can confirm, as the collection is of the first five eps, and there he was), but he apparently is beat by four years by a guy here in America who has been on a daytime soap (if daytime makes a difference) since 1956, Don Hastings on As The World Turns.

it seems your man on Coronation Street is a bit more active, I take it. Ol' Don had a one-night stand almost 20 years ago, but I think that was it.

His onscreen wife, Kathryn Hays, has been on there for near 35 years or more. She is perhaps best known for the mute on the episode of the original Star Trek, The Empath.



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Ever seen either one? I sent off for Timeslip several years ago to see what it was like, as I have been a fan of Doctor Who since the early 1980s (we would get Tom Baker's Doctor who only after he had quit the show).

I kept asking if anyone thought Timeslip was similar to Doctor Who and I kept hearing about Tomorrow People and I finally found it and decided to send off for it (well, three seasons, first three. buy two get one free).

Havent received them, but looking forward to them.

and I enjoyed Timeslip tremendously. Amazing contrast to Doctor Who.

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Tomorrow People was a sci-fi programme for teenagers shown on ITV around 4.45pm in the 1970's.
Caught on because the Tomorrow People were just ordinary teenagers who one day found themselves with superhero powers. The audience empathised as they would be developing powers of their own [sexual, smoking, drinking, drug taking] as they moved from childhood to being young adults.
Low budget FX and poor acting but occasionally covered social issues eg the fascination of young people with Fascism/Neo Nazism in late 70's Britain. Also had an episode where polyester disco suits with disembodied voices threatened to take over the world by taking over the brain of anyone who wore one. Bit like disco music in real life :-)
There was even a guest appearance by a young pop band called Flintlock.
I wasnt a fan but the theme music is distinctive.

I dont remember Timeslip. Sorry.

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From what I gathered, Timeslip (1970) had one airing, then wasn't shown again until over a decade later, if I recall what I heard.

I bought it on dvd a couple of years ago, for meself for Christmas. No one else was going to get it for me!

Just got Tomorrow People, an interesting watch, but I fail to see how it compared to Doctor Who, unless that comes along later.

At the moment, I marvel at British children watching Doctor Who, Timeslip and Tomorrow People at the same time that their American equivalents were watching Scooby Doo and singing the pre-amble to the Constitution (to this day, I cannot recite it. I have to sing it, thanks to one Saturday morning cartoon program that sang it every week, but thanks to that cartoon, I do now at least KNOW the pre-amble).

Of the three programs, tho I am a diehard Doc Who fan, I think Timeslip had the strongest substance, even with the daughter and mother having a 'psychic bond' when the daughter had traveled back to the 1940s (never fully explained how she and the lad, Simon, were able to do this as well.

But of the four programs, approximately four eps each, they were incredibly entertaining and showed virtually no influence from Doctor Who.

So far on Tomorrow People, I've been most amused by Dave Prowse as an android. Now I know what Darth Vader looks like. lol!

I see he appeared in eps of The Beverly Hillbillies. Must have been when they went to England and messed around at a castle. I wonder which one was him?


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Comparing Tomorrow people to Doctor Who isn't a fair comparison. As you know Dr Who has run since 1963 and is part of culture here.

The scariest childrens TV was Pogle's wood for very young viewers. It can no longer be broadcast whilst children are watching. The cans of film have labels on that say "Not to be broadcast". Incredible as it was stop frame animation done in a shed by a bloke called Oliver Postgate.

There was also a programme about real-life mysteries on at 4.30pm that scared me. Only saw two episodes, after that whenever I heard the theme music I used to run out of the house. Dont know what it was called but Magnus Magnusson was the presenter.

Dave Prowse was in road safety films as the Green Cross man. [The Green Cross Code was the road safety does and donts that kids learnt]. He has a warm rural west country accent, it would have been hilarious to hear his voice as Darth Vader.

Scooby Doo was pretty popular and as previously mentioned, its rhyming slang for clue.

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Halfway into Tomorrow People, I really don't understand the comparison to Doctor Who. Amusing to see a rather young Peter Davison in a curly peroxide blonde wig. Horrible episode. Davison and the two ladies with him did a good job on the hillbilly accent (maybe yelling a bit too much. The accent is used with enough twang to drive the words across so one doesn't have to yell, tho the dialect is also loud as well).

This past weekend, we got Are You Being Served Again (apparently called Grace and Favour in the UK) on the air again. I'm hoping Dr. Beeching will make it back eventually as well.

I didn't like this one the first time I watched it, but now it is just fun seeing these folks again.

It seems to me they must have reunited about the time the original show was gaining momentum in the states and becoming a cult fave.

Much like Tom Baker's Doctor Who, we didn't get the show, or his episodes, in the states until around the time he had quit the show (approximately 1980 or '81).

Same for AYBS apparently. The show must have been off the air in the UK (1974-1984, I believe) before it was brought to America (late 1980s) and become a cult hit.

Could the Grace and Favour reunion have been influenced by word that the first show was conquering America?

At that time, it just wasn't the same seeing them on a farm, but now, near 20 years on, I'm enjoying anything different like this, something I havent seen before, and I half-watched this show the first time around.

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Are you being served ran from 1972-85 in the UK. Made a movie version in 1977. Not a big fan and so missed Grace and Favour in 1992/3. Oh Dr Beeching! or You rang M'Lord (which reunited It aint alf hot, mum , HiDeHi and AYBS actors) I didnt watch either.

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Oh, AYBS was just one of the funniest things we ever saw. Trust me, nothing like that on American tv. Not seen the movie, nor have I pursued it. Seen it in catalogs.

It hasn't aired in a while here, the original run. It was run into the ever-lovin' ground tho.

Keeping Up Appearances is currently seeing that take place. At one time, KUA, like AYBS, was airing near six days a week.

They finally corralled KUA down to one night a week and it is rather holding steady, but everyone has already seen the episodes over and over again.

Saw Dr. B years ago, when it ran by chance.

When I would later get Hi De Hi (12 eps) I realized half the actors did go to Dr. B, as well as the INspector from On The Buses, 12 eps as well, which I got at the same time as Hi De Hi.

This is pretty much why I want to see Dr. B again; to see the performers in something else and see if I can understand the show. I had the history explained to me (but since I've never had to focus on it, I didn't half pay attention).

Essentially the same thing as Hi De Hi; something that never affected America, so we don't know anything about it (in that instance, the failure of the family camping areas).

Not seen You Rang, M'Lord or It Aint Half Hot Mum (pardon if I put the H's in there and they were supposed to be left out).

As to what scared me, Jonny Quest did a good job (I'm a child of the 1970s) and the original Nightstalker show (the remake had Stuart Townsend as Karl Kolchak) did a very good job too.

I remember being scared by the white ball coming out of the water at the beginning of the Prisoner with Patrick McGoohan. When I finally saw it over 30 years later, I told my brother I thought that had been a commercial or something or that I must have dreamt it.

I would have been scared of some of those Hammer horror films had they been around over here back then.

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There is a long UK tradition of rude double meaning jokes in popular entertainment that go back to music hall [Vaudeville] and when people took seaside holidays and went to the evening shows at the theatre. The defence is that the rude meaning is entirely in the mind of the audience so no innocent will be corrupted, they just wont get the joke.

You Rang M'Lord was set in the 30's where a lot of the actors from Hi De Hi were servants to the Meldrum family played by the officers from It Aint..
Not surprised it didnt play in the US, it had a lesbian character, the Meldrum's tomboyish daughter Cissy. She was played by Catherine Rabbett who once dated Prince Andrew. Plus all the jokes were about the British class system and sex so it wouldn't play in Peoria.

Dr Beeching was a CEO brought in from the chemical industry around 1960 to manage British Rail, the nationalised railway. He cut more than half the network as freight and passengers were going by road instead. Steam trains still ran on the network till 1968 in Britain and as they are labour intensive, a lot of long serving railwaymen and women lost their jobs. The network now carries more people than ever, 1 billion + each year, but 3/4 are commuters in London.

Keeping Up Appearances was in the long tradition of serious actors playing in sitcoms. Stems from Steptoe & Son [Sanford &Son] where the writers didnt want to work with highly strung comics with their petty jealousies any more after ten years with Tony Hancock. All the actors jump at the chance of the money before going back to theatre. Repeated on Sunday afternoons here nowadays.

Only saw the Prisoner when it was repeated in the 80's. Never seen Nightstalker or Jonny Quest.

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America went thru at least two situations in film and entertainment where suggestive material was censored.

The first one happened in the mid-1930s, with something called the Hays office (named after the guy who formed it), where innuendo, suggestiveness, drug use, effemininity and various other questionable, suggestive material wasn't allowed.

A very popular stage play about two female teachers who were accused of being lesbians was made into a movie, but with one of the women being turned into a man. other than that, the play was virtually intact, yet this was done because of the Hays office, apparently.

Heck, if you ever saw Fried Green Tomatoes, with Jessica Tandy and Kathy Bates, hints of lesbianism between the two young women was removed. I believe it was in the book, written by Fanny Flagg, a woman who was remotely funny in the 1970s.

There was a picture of a woman with a cigarette in her mouth, her leg propped up and it was all stuff that wasn't supposed to be allowed in movies, about eight items. One I recall was her inside thigh couldn't be shown.

We were handed from this the 'One Foot on the Floor Each' rule, in which if a man and a woman were in bed, or on the bed, they each had to have a foot on the floor.

Two movies I've noticed this in are Adam's Rib, in which at the end, Kate Hepburn has both of her feet on the floor, but Spencer Tracy is kneeling on the bed beside I her. I guess two feet were on the floor, but they were both hers.

A Doris Day movie did an interesting bit with the suggestion she was in bed with a man, the camera panned down to her hand, holding another hand, then we see him, but we never saw them side-by-side. That was a 1950s movie. This is how long that rule was enforced.

The second one occurred in the 1950s with McCarthyism, in which anyone who was accused of being different (in this instance, a communist, which many, but not all, in Hollywood had joined the communist party during the 1930s) was guilty for refusing to answer the question.

This led to a strange, watering-down of entertainment, resulting in fodder like the Elvis Presley movies, Jerry Lewis, and the like.

Annette Funicello and Frankie Avalon.

I watch old English movies and marvel at how open they tend to be sometime. I even watch some light-hearted comedies and they have more going for them than any American equivalent.

The 'two fingered salute' I saw in an old 1940s movie, Foreman Went to France, done by Tommy Trindle.

Then I would see it in a 1950s Eiling comedy, Titfield Thunderbolt.

Then of course you have it endlessly done on Are You Being Served?

You still won't see a single finger shown on American tv like that.

"Someone might be offended!"

Jonny Quest was a mid-1960s cartoon about a young boy whose father was an American scientist and the fear was the enemy (in this instance, communists) would try to kidnap the boy to influence the father, so Jonny had a body guard, Race Bannon. Jonny also had a dog, Bandit.

eventually an episode would introduce an Arabian boy, Hadji, thereby giving Jonny another kid to interact with.

Very intense adventures involving mummies, invisible monsters, voodoo, spider robots and various other creatures, this cartoon would see much of its "violence" edited in the 1970s (a fate that fell worst on Bugs Bunny cartoons. All gunfire was cut out).

The later joke was, since no mother was ever shown for Jonny, that Dr. Quest and Race were a gay couple.

A poll for favorite cartoon moms found Race either winning or very high in the list.

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Most British movies since the talkies have been dull wordy stagebound affairs with little action or location filming. There was little to censor but all films had to be shown and assessed by the British Board of Film Censors (BBFC)who could make any cuts they wanted. Still do but the "C" in BBFC now stands for classification. Decisions werent codified and up to the individual censor who made a report and negotiated cuts and changes with the film maker.

Some people in the British film industry were very left wing and the numbers were swelled by blacklisted Americans such as Joseph Losey. The only blacklisted director in the UK was Michael Powell who became unable to get work after making Peeping Tom, a dark story of a sex killer who photographs his victims as they die. Powell ended up working as part of Zoetrope under Stephen Spielberg.

There has been a sea change in British society since the fifties, there is a greater openness, less deference to the upper class, greater equality of opportunity and this is reflected in the films. There is a long tradition of poking fun at the institutions of British society because the vast majority of people here have no influence or interest in how they are run. In a democratic society like the states that would be considered unpatriotic and divisive.
There is no way "Im alright Jack" would be made in the US. Pitch: Communist is in charge of the labour union at a factory and is always bringing them out on strike and hampering efficiency. Hilarity ensues.

In the same way The Godfather could not be made in Britain. Crime syndicate films here like The Krays, Gangster no.1, Get Carter emphasise the poverty (physical, economic, emotional and intellectual) of the criminals backgrounds and local area.

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By comparison, in America, there were the screwball comedies in the 1930s (essentially only defined by about a half dozen films worth watching now) which showed the upper class in a daft light.
Also worth nothing Margaret Dumont, who played rich society dames to Groucho Marx and the Marx Bros, and she would often be the butt of their jokes, mainly his.

The rich weren't shown in an enviable light back then.

But by the 1950s, the fabricated lifestyle (Father Knows Best, Donna Reed, etc, best shown on American television) would never be ridiculed.

Where Lucy Ricardo and I Love Lucy came from, I don't know. She wasnt the dutiful wife, she didn't obey her husband, nor do I have a clue as to why she didnt spawn endless copies. Her shenanigans and stunts didn't turn out well in the end anyway, as happens in other American sitcoms around that time.

The most I see ridiculed around that time, again in American sitcoms, seems to be the rebel rock and roll music. There didnt seem to be a grasp on if it was beatnik, a fad, surfer music or a gimmick.

One of the most puzzling things to me from this era is Doris Day in Teacher's Pet singing a song 'Im the girl who invented rock and roll'. Where?

Everytime I watch a Doris Day movie or program, I feel like there is attempts to make her pretty much into what Madonna was in the 1980s while maintaining her good girl image (Remember George Michael's line in Wake Me Up Before You Go Go, when he said 'you make the sun shine brighter than Doris Day'? That line spoke volumes).

American films often do try to justify criminal activities and I really don't feel they make it. We are told mobsters were heroes in the 1930s, such as John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde and the like, but they all eventually lost favor.

An episode of the 1970s tv show, The Brady Bunch, dealt with the glorification of Jesse James.

Then of course, we get Warren Beatty making Bonnie and Clyde, then thirty years later making Bugsy Malone. No idea what his adoration is with these figures.

As I've already said, 1960, Coronation Street, there was no way anyone in America would refer to 'breaking wind' on tv. Absolutely unheard of!

I guess we didn't fart in America. lol!

Likewise, the attempts with Americanizing Absolutely Fabulous are revealing, especially for today in America, that the women couldn't be viewed as thoughtless, insensitive, and terrible mothers. America can't have that now.

Which is why both efforts failed.

Not sure what to say about the Fawlty Towers copies, Amanda's with Bea Arthur and Royal Payne with John Larroquette and JoBeth Williams.

The second one was just marketed rather shabbily, but it might have done better had it been handled properly.

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A lot of good hearted Christian rural midwesterners werent that concerned when Dillinger or Bonnie & Clyde robbed a bank in the 30's. The same bank had often foreclosed on their farm or a neighbours.

The 1968 biopic movie about Bonnie & Clyde with Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway tried to elicit sympathy for them with their brutal extrajudicial execution but attitudes have changed as crime levels have risen and so most audiences now would probably think "Quite right too"!

Never watched a Doris Day movie. The plotline has always been so twee, apart from The Man who knew too much. I'd like to see that. I think thats the one where she sings "Que Sera, Sera"?

I'm sure all westerns that deal with real life people such as Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, Wild Bill Hickock, the James gang, Billy the Kid dont show how vicious they were in real life and try to justify the anti hero's violence. "Unforgiven", "Deadwood","Coffeyville raid" do show how violent and unheroic the frontier was.

In the UK, Robin Hood is the original goodie outlaw. The highway robber Dick Turpin is also mythologised.

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I would recommend checking out Man Who Knew Too Much, with Doris Day and Jimmy Stewart, and then go no further. Avoid all her movies with a passion if you have no idea what to expect.

Pillow Talk, with Rock Hudson, is her Oscar nominated role, but she should have been nominated for Man Who Knew Too Much, and yes, MWKTM is when she sang Que Sera Sera.

If you've ever seen the original MWKTM, they are fun to compare, mainly for the role of the wife to the finale, but I do like the remake, I was always a Jimmy Stewart fan, a Hitch fan (my mother couldn't stand his movies) and Doris surprised me in this one.

I've not seen Pillow Talk, by the way, and I don't want to. I've seen enough of her follow up films.

She did a tv show in the 1960s, an incredible piece of work, as I think the show was re-vamped every year that it was on. She started on a farm or a ranch with kids and grandpa, then she is in an apartment the next year, Billy DeWolffe is her boss one year, then McLean Stevenson is her boss the next year.

If you watch MWKTM then wonder what else this woman did, I think Please Don't Eat the Daisies with David Niven would be a good one to see, MAY-be Teacher's Pet with Clark Gable, but I found that one incredible.

Please Don't Eat the Daisies will give you about the best idea of where her career went.

My aunt and uncle actually took me past Nottingham, then pointed out the Sherwood forest to me.

"Ah, he won't care to see that," my uncle grumbled. Unbelievable.

Heard of Dick Turpin, but I think that was thru Carry On Dick, as I wondered what this title was referring to. I don't think I have this one in the collection. I got about the first half set, then about three afterwards. I would have to go check.

I know I got Carry on Camping (wanted that one) and (brace yerself) Carry On Columbus. Well, it was in the set.

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Thanks for the recommendations.

Dick Turpin was a highway robber holding up stagecoaches as they went through isolated rural areas. Born 1705 hanged 1739. Disney made a TV movie in 1965 which was shown in cinemas here. There was a childrens TV series in the late 70's in the UK. Also in the recent "Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford" , James introduces himself to a young boy as Dick Turpin.

None of the films or TV are based on the grim facts, but on a novel "Rookwood" published in 1830's. He lives on as when a customer is annoyed by high prices they claim it is highway robbery, sometimes saying to the shop assistant
"At least Dick Turpin wore a mask"

The Carry On films got worse as the years went by. Tiny budgets but in the 1950's they were harbingers of the sexual frankness and openness in the late 60's and 70's. Or so their fans say. I saw "Carry On at your convenience" at the cinema when it came out. They are terribly dated. I have seen them all except Emmanuelle and Columbus and now avoid seeing them again.
I would watch ..Follow that Camel only for Phil Silvers as a French foreign legion sergeant.



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I'm going to have to look up the Disney movie. I'm really surprised that movie didn't get shown over here in some capacity, well into the 1970s anyway.

Seems I've come across the name somewhere, but I'm not sure where.

As for the Carry Ons, From Carry On Sargeant to Carry On Screaming were released on dvd, along with That's Carry On, or whatever it was that was hosted by Kenneth Williams and Barbara Windsor.

I'm amazed the silly things didnt do better in America. They are virtually unheard of.

I saw some of Carry On Jack when I was in England in '97, had no idea what I was watching. Recognized Juliet Mills and have seen Bernard Cribbins in the Peter Cushing Doctor Who movie (first place I saw him) and his appearance on Fawlty Towers, so I recognized him as well.

Had not a clue who Kenneth Williams was. What a creature. I'm rather surprised the Carry Ons didn't make it over here in the anti-establishment 1960s simply to show Williams being thwarted. Or maybe the feeling was he would tear down the power structure with his behavior anyway. No one would ever respect an authoritative figure again after watching Williams. lol!

I would see half of Carry On Camping when I returned in '02 and felt almost cheated we didn't grow up watching the daffy movies.

Carry On Columbus was awful. You don't want to see it. Trust me. lol! Had a very catchy tune at the end, almost a disco-ish dance song of Carry On Columbus.

I saw in the documentary with Williams and Windsor that Phil Silver appeared in the Carry Ons eventually too.

Seems Up The Khyber is rather highly regarded as well.

I got an old movie with Frankie Howerd, Petula Clark and Margaret Rutherford in it called Runaway Bus. Very amusing movie.

I see Howerd showed up in the Carry Ons as well, in fact, he was to appear in Columbus but he died.

I got the Carry On Christmas specials and Howerd was too amusing. I'm still laughing about him in drag (for that time, he looked like Mae West in Myra Breckinridge), and his ad libs are hilarious.

My fave Carry Ons would be Teacher, Jack and Camping. Regardless and Spying are good too.



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Not a fan of Frankie Howerd, though I've never seen the Runaway Bus. The worst carry on I've seen is Carry On England, set in WW2 the British Army have an experimental camp where men and women soldiers do their basic training together. Hilarity ensues.

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No idea why I sent off for Runaway Bus when I did. Guess I just wanted to see a completely unknown movie to the American shores, and there it was, available on American VHS.

I also sent off for five Eiling comedies. Most outstanding one starred Guiness.

Pretty amusing bit, about two brothers who worked in the mine were off to see a football game. One got sidetracked by a lecherous female and the other spent his time chasing after an old family friend down on his luck with a base chello (the big ones that you stand up, whatever they are officially called).

Other than Runaway, the only other thing I have with Howerd is the Carry On Christmas. It was very funny, as was he. Apparently he was good at the ad-lib.

I sent off for a war comedy he did from the early seventies, Up The Front? I think that was it.

Got one really good laugh in the whole thing, and that isn't saying much.

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Howerd did a TV series called "and Mr Churchill said to me..." where he played an army private guarding the Prime Ministers rooms under London in WW2. The BBC thought it wasnt good enough for broadcast so kept it on the shelf for 12 years. Eventually standards in TV fell sufficiently for it to be shown. Never repeated.
I have seen the b+w film about two brothers from Wales going to a rugby international in London. Will have to look the title up.

The outstanding Ealing comedy was Kind Hearts and Coronets where Alec Guinness plays eight different parts all members of the D'Ascoyne family who stand in the way of Dennis Price inheriting an earldom.
In the same year 1949 Ealing also released Whisky Galore about a shipwreck with a cargo of whisky on the western isles of Scotland plus Passport to Pimlico where a inner city district of London finds legally it is part of France so can do away with rationiing, pub closing times, shops closing on Sundays and all the restrictions of British way of life. Its these three films that made Ealing's name.

Michael Balcon the Ealing studio director said the only nationalism worthwhile was cultural nationalism. He'd lost his job in Hollywood in the 30's and returned to UK vowing to make films in Britain about Britain for the British market. He would have been appalled at the idea of The Lady Killers being remade and set in the US.


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Passport to Pimlico and Whisky Galore are in this set, so I've seen those.

Titfield thunderbolt, about a town wanting to keep a train running or something, actually very amusing, is another one.

The Maggie, I believe is the title, about a small tug boat or something, stars an American, Paul something, as the befuddled fellow who is confused by the boat's antics and the crew.

Then the Guiness one.

Wasn't Lady Killers this movie that was just remade with Nick Cage? Didn't see the remake, wanted to check out the original as all I heard was glowing reviews of it.

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The Ladykillers was remade in 2004 with Tom Hanks in the Alec Guinness role. I have only seen clips of it. The original had a stellar cast, Alec Guinness, Peter Sellers, Herbert Lom.
Titfield Thunderbolt features a train that is stolen from a museum and is driven down roads. How can it be steered without rails? Never explained in the movie.

The Maggie is about a small steam boat that takes supplies to the Scottish islands. An American hires them to deliver furniture to his second home on an island. Only seen it once many years ago. Unfortunately, unless its a classic, TV here has an aversion to showing black and white films. The number of colour sets has increased to the point where only 30,000 B+W TV licences are issued each year out of 20 million homes with a TV set. So small cute films in B&W arent as widely seen on TV unless they form part of a season of a particular actor or director's films or a study of a genre.

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Yes, I heard about the licenses for tvs in the UK, a long time ago. Interesting, I must say.

So how does that affect something like say, Steptoe and Son, which I believe is in b&w?

Over here, we have our reruns in b&w, among them, I Love Lucy and Leave It To Beaver (incredible 1950s tv show about a small boy with an older brother and all-knowing parents, all reasonably done. His friends tempt him with misdeeds, and his brother, Wally, has without a doubt, one of the most nefarious friends ever to appear on television, named Eddie Haskell, who is all kindness and politeness when the adults are around. Everyone knows an Eddie Haskell. Hated this show when I first saw it in the 1970s and it was a 20-year-old show then. Watched it 30 years later and suddenly it all made sense to me.)

The only b&w movie we will get trotted out now that anyone would want to see is It's A Wonderful Life, 1946, with Jimmy Stewart, and that is at Christmas time.

Might get Miracle on 34th Street, 1947, with Maureen O'Hara.

Other than the Wizard of Oz, which is half b&w, all the rest that are 'old' and are shown at certain times of the year (fluctuates between Easter and Christmas) are Ben Hur, Sound of Music and Ten Commandments, all of which are in color.

Still, we get old b&w's anyway, from time to time.

So you can't look forward to a nice old Hitch film, or the Duke, from time to time?

We get Duke movies, old b&ws, practically every saturday morning on one station here.

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A Tv licence costs £126 a year, which is a lot but it gives us the BBC. It will seem incredible to Americans, not to mention the TV detector vans that tour the country to find if any homes without a licence are watching a set. Usually as so few homes have no licence or a B&W licence, they knock on your door and have the right to search your home if they think you have got a TV set. This is the nearest the UK has come to the Eastern bloc.

Steptoe & Son was made in two periods, 1962-5 in black and white and then sporadically in colour 1970, 1972, Xmas Special 1973 and 1974 ie whenever the two actors needed the money. The colour episodes are the ones that are repeated both on BBC and on UKTV gold.

Another series that only gets colour repeats is The Avengers. The black and white early shows even if they feature Diana Rigg and have the surreal plots are never repeated, clips are used in documentaries.

The BBC only shows b&w TV shows as a tribute when one of the principal actors dies and no colour episodes of their most famous show exist, or as part of a documentary season on BBC2 or BBC4. ITV never do. If an actor dies they'll show a poor movie of theirs in colour rather than a classic B&W Tv series. Also a lot of their early shows were wiped/awful/belong to a channel that lost its regional franchise.
Leave it to beaver didnt screen here. I love Lucy never gets rerun here nor does the colour series she made in the early 70's. Bilko did air late on BBC2 until recently.

The only B&W John Wayne movies that get shown are Stagecoach, Fort Apache and The man who shot Liberty Valance. His films of lesser quality that are in colour get shown more often such as The Alamo, Rooster Cogburn, McQ.

In the 1970's there would be an afternoon film every Saturday, Sunday or bank holiday Monday plus a family film during the school holidays. B&W, B pictures, everything. The TV companies knew half the audience were watching on B&W sets, there was a back catalogue of movies from the the studio system years to fill airtime, anything would get a large audience because there were only three channels.
In effect only two as BBC2 was evenings only. I remember one very wet bank holiday afternoon, BBC2 started transmission early knowing the population would be stuck at home and showed a b&w John Wayne film "The fighting Cee-Bees".
The downside was that these films would be shown only once, as half the potential audience for a second screening a few years later had already seen it.

Really only classics or a good example of a genre (when a channel has a season of films about a topic) are the only B&W films that get seen here. To see a Hitchcock movie in B&W here means a DVD or wait till a film channel schedules a retrospective season of his work.

The sound of music is shown regularly here on TV and in cinemas. Cinemas advertise singalong evenings and run it with the lyrics on the screen. People dress up in costume and go along to sing.

This film combines two things I hate - the Nazi takeover of Europe and musicals. Obviously I hate nazism more but musicals do come a disproportionately close second.

Ben Hur, 10C, Greatest Story Ever Told get shown on Good Friday here.

Spartacus is part of popular culture here. When English football fans were kept behind in the stadium after a match in Rome, they were all sat down facing lines of carabineri. The police made an announcement over a loud hailer. So one fan stood up and shouted "I'm Spartacus!" and was copied in turn by several others.

There is an apocryphal story that Catherine Zeta-Jones was not getting her own way in a London store,so she said; "Dont you know who I am? Im Kirk Douglas' daughter in law"
So one by one the other people in the shop said "No, Im Kirk Douglas' daughter in law!"


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At the moment there would be borderline outrage if I Love Lucy and Leave It To Beaver left the air. Residuals or licensing run out on reruns after a while or something, to keep showing them means payment has to be made to whoever owns the shows at this moment, but people want to see I Love Lucy, and apparently Leave It To Beaver.

Andy Griffith show is another biggie. Ran for eight years, five years in b&w, those are the more popular episodes. Somebody somewhere is showing Andy Griffith.

All of I Love Lucy and Leave It To Beaver are in b&w.

And as I said, the b&w Duke movies Saturday morning are a staple as well, on that network anyway.

I have heard about the license to have a tv in the UK before. I think if that were attempted over here, there would be alot less tvs, as well as some very clever ways to conceal them. Or people would just buy more dvds and let the stations go.

Next February, tv reception is supposed to change. There seems to be concern that people don't know and won't have their tv and probably won't care. lol!

I heard about Bilko being popular outside of America before Silvers even died. That absolutely puzzles me.

Bilko today would be a curiosity. I saw the show 30 years ago and even then thought it was peculiar.

He was in my alltime favorite movie, Mad Mad Mad Mad World (apparently a acquired taste for some), but Bilko is just terribly dated to me, and most of America.

The Spartacus yell is turning up here as well, at odd moments. Funny thing is, no one is showing the movie at all.

Never heard the Catherine Zeta Jones story. That is odd considering the way media reports seem to publicize any little tidbit, but I think in America, they would zero in on Michael Douglas more than they would her.

Mum told me once that what is charged for and licensed in the UK and isn't in America all balances out in the end. Everything we purchase in America is taxed, which you only learn about when you get to the register, while in the UK, if you pay five pounds for this and two pounds fifty for that, you will pay seven pounds fifty total at the register.

In America, there will be (I don't know what the tax is now) 8 cents to the dollar? 9 cents? I don't think it is ten cents yet, but I might be wrong.

But pick up two things, one for five dollars, the other two dollars fifty cents, you will be looking at paying over eight bucks at the register.


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Value Added Tax VAT is 17.5% and is on everything except food you cook yourself and childrens clothes. It is included in the price on the label.

Bilko is a great show with a talented comedian at the helm and a superb ensemble cast. All the comedy comes from the characters, there are no pratfalls or catchphrases. It isnt on here any more I guess everyone has seen it by now.
BTW in 2003 readers of the BBC's own listing magazine "Radio Times" - the largest circulation magazine in Europe - voted Bilko as the best ever sitcom.

The UK version "The Army Game" was popular and ran for several years with a spin off set in civilian life. Not shown after its initial run and repeat.

The Catherine Zeta-Jones story probably isnt true, just one of those urban legends that crops up and is embellished in the retelling.

Andy Griffith show wasnt screened in the UK. I have only read about it. Matlock was shown,btw Matlock is a small town in England in the peak district national park. He was in a film "Waitress" recently as an old gent who ate regularly at the diner.

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That is truly amazing about Bilko.

I read about him (I'll say complaining) saying that Bilko was popular elsewhere in the world, except America.

When I saw he was in one of the Carry On movies, I deduced he was clearly enjoying that popularity and recognition elsewhere, as the Carry Ons werent making it to the states either.

Other than appearances on Beverly Hillbillies (one of our rural comedies, as they were known), and then he showed up in an early episode of Love Boat (as Gavin MacLeod's father, actually he was quite good here, I thought) he didn't do much else, by that time, he was clearly getting old, or he just wasn't in demand.

Milton Berle did more around this time than Silvers did.

Silvers had a daughter, Cathy Silvers, who really kind of inherited her father's sharp tongue for the word, tho she hasn't done much.

She turned up on Happy Days (in the role of a character that had been mentioned for years on the show, but never shown, and she fit the character to the bill) as the slick-talker bad-influence friend, Jenny Piccolo.

In one episode, she got in trouble for vandalism and her father showed up, played by, who else? Phil Silvers. He was very funny.

But as for Bilko, maybe it was because we had Gomer Pyle (a spinoff of Andy Griffith which for some reason was better received) and Hogan's Heroes, as well as McHale's Navy, Bilko got lost in the shuffle.

The beloved Allan Melvin, who appeared on Bilko and did endless tv appearances and cartoon voices (finally ending up in the 1970s as a plumber in a commercial, still much loved) recently passed away.

A 1960s cartoon called Top Cat was supposed to be modeled after Bilko, or Phil Silvers anyway.

With Arnold Stang doing the voice and another fellow named Marvin Kaplan providing one of the gang's voices, the irony was that both Stang and Kaplan had appeared in Mad World with Silvers, all in the crucial scene with Jonathan Winters when the gas station was destroyed.

It has to be the age of the show that has hurt Bilko, as I said, as we had the other military shows in America. No one in America wanted to see fast-talking military figures.

Robert Crane in Hogan's Heroes was smart, but he was suave, not yelling and ordering around.

Still interesting about ol' Bilko.

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Only comedy buffs in the Uk have heard of Milton Berle.

Top Cat still gets shown here, although it is officially retitled Boss Cat, to avoid giving publicity to a brand of tinned cat food. Throughout the show everyone refers to Top Cat or TC though so everyone here calls it Top Cat.

The BBC used to be paranoid about brand names appearing on shows, when making things from cereal boxes on kids TV the name of the cereal would be covered in black tape. Presenters could not refer to Sellotape they had to call it sticky back plastic. Why not adhesive tape or sticky tape I dunno.

According to an episode of The Simpsons, where Roger Myers of Itchy & Scratchy is sued for plagiarism, Top Cat is Bilko, Huckleberry Hound is Andy Griffith.

Never knew he appeared on Happy Days. Over here it was only on in certain regions for the first few seasons.

Hogans Heroes was shown here but there is resistance to films or shows that only show the US involvement in WW2, most POW camps would be full of Brits as well as US forces. Robert Crane had an interesting life away from the set to say the least.....

There was a plethora of shows set in the country starting with Beverly Hillbillies and continuing with paler imitations. We got Bev HB, Petticoat Junction but no Green Acres (though this became Two in Clover here starring Sid James from the Carry On films and Victor Spinetti - the TV producer in A Hard Days Night - as a couple of con-men hiding out in a remote country cottage) and definitely no Hee-Haw.

Until the government deregulated them in 1991 TV listings were split in two. Radio Times had only BBC TV and radio and TV Times had ITV and commercial radio. You had to buy both magazines or get the paper every day to know whats on. Newspapers could only print that days TV listings. On Saturdays they could print Sunday's as well. This lasted until video recorders with timers became widespread and satellite TV stations began.

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Corner House guest: "Only comedy buffs in the Uk have heard of Milton Berle."
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Really?

Well, he's nearly forgotten here as well. He was an early staple on American tv, called Mr. Television. His show is virtually unknown and unshown. I've NEVER seen it, tho I've caught those grainy bits and skits.

Dated? Yes.

He was known for dressing up as a woman, and he wasn't an attractive man to begin with, so he made one very hideous woman.

Apparently he was also known for stealing other comics' material.

One brilliant exchange between him and Groucho Marx of the Marx bros. (I think it is listed here on IMDB. You do know who Groucho and the Marx bros were, don't you?), Berle told Groucho, "I got some of my best material from you."

Groucho replied 'then you weren't paying attention.'


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Corner House guest: "According to an episode of The Simpsons, where Roger Myers of Itchy & Scratchy is sued for plagiarism, Top Cat is Bilko, Huckleberry Hound is Andy Griffith."
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Top Cat was definitely Bilko, this has always been known, or Top Cat was modeled after Bilko, perhaps with different results. The funny thing is the fellow who did Top Cat's voice, ARnold Stang, is a small, meek little man who was generaly known, when he was performing on camera, for doing a raspy little voice with a heavy New York accent.

But Huck Hound was NOT Andy Griffith. Huck's cartoon started in about 1958 or so, Andy Griffith didn't get his show until 1960.

Huck Hound's voice was done by Daws Butler, who before Huck, the voice was on a coyote character going way back to the late 1940s at best, maybe early 1950s, in MGM Tom and Jerry cartoons.

Andy wasn't around at that time, or he wasn't popular by an means.

Simpsons is just a buggery little cartoon. Good for a chuckle, then your done.

The rest would be the Flintstones modeled after the Honeymooners (with Jackie Gleason and Art Carney, whom I compared at the start with Lotsa Luck-On The Buses, as they all involved a bus driver character) and Betty Rubble was obviously patterned after Betty Boop in appearance,

Yogi Bear modeled after Art Carney (so Carney had two cartoon contributions)

Doggy Daddy modeled after Jimmy Durante (mainly in speech)

Wally Gator modeled after Ed Wynn (again, only in speech)

About the last one I can think of was Jabberjaw from 1976, speaking like Curly Howard of the 3 Stooges and saying 'no respect' like Rodney Dangerfield.

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Corner House guest: "There was a plethora of shows set in the country starting with Beverly Hillbillies and continuing with paler imitations. We got Bev HB, Petticoat Junction but no Green Acres (though this became Two in Clover here starring Sid James from the Carry On films and Victor Spinetti - the TV producer in A Hard Days Night - as a couple of con-men hiding out in a remote country cottage) and definitely no Hee-Haw."
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They were all connected and crossed over (well, won't even talk about Hee Haw).

Beverly Hillbillies was the first show.

Bea Benaderet appeared right from the start as nephew Jethro's mother, Pearl Bodine, insisting the family move to California from Bug Tussle, Tennessee (doesnt really exist, by the way).

She would later appear in a few episodes, even emerging from the door at the end with the rest of the Clampetts to wave good bye.

Benaderet, whom I can best describe to you as an American Celia Imrie, was the first choice for the Granny character in Hillbillies, but Benaderet, like Imrie, was rather endowed up top. They do look incredibly alike, I think.

Benaderet would get her own show in Petticoat Junction. While the Clampetts from Beverly Hillbillies would appear on PJ, there was never any mention again of Benaderet's BH character, Pearl Bodine.

I think they sidestepped this by this time, as Benaderet was ill with cancer and was out of many of these episodes anyway.

The third show, Green Acres, was the response to the criticism of BH portraying country folk as ignorant (a long running joke on BH was the Clampetts didn't know what the door bell was when they heard the chimes, yet they would go to someone else's house and ring the doorbell with no problem).

So the counter was to make Green Acres, in which attorney Oliver Wendell Douglas (Eddie Albert) and his Hungarian wife, Lisa (Eva Gabor) would move to the country to fulfill a whim of his for the country life.

Big standout is the neighborhood salesman, Mr. Haney (played superbly by Pat Buttram, from Alabama) who was always selling something from the back of his truck, usually something Mr. Douglas was suddenly missing.

"It just so happens I have one just like that."

GA is considered slightly different from the other two, as characters, usually Ms. Gabor, would comment on the opening credits and things such as that as they appeared on the tv screen.

I find GA to be the least tolerable of the three.

Andy Griffith would often be thrown into this set, tho that show, and its follow up Mayberry RFD are from a different production company.

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Corner House guest: "Hogans Heroes was shown here but there is resistance to films or shows that only show the US involvement in WW2, most POW camps would be full of Brits as well as US forces. Robert Crane had an interesting life away from the set to say the least....."
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Robert Crane, case closed. lol!

Hogan's Heroes has had a pretty good run in reruns, it is on one station now, as a matter of fact.

No, the only Brit you will find in Hogan's Heroes is Richard Dawson, who became better known in the 1970s for a game show called Family Feud. He would lose his job over concern for AIDS, as he kissed all the female contestants.

That's Americans for you. His replacement suffered from depression and tried several times to kill himself before finally succeeding, so go figure.

Hogan's also had Robert Clary (NOT my favorite performer) but who apparently really is French and was a POW in a concentration camp.

Also three of the four outstanding German officers and characters were authentic and had fled the Nazi regime, most notably Werner Klemperer, who played Col. Klink, and won two Emmy awards for this show, awards given to tv acting and performances.

Klink, and Sgt. Schultz, the German guard, are too rich.

Klemperer had stated that if he took the role, the character of Klink was to never win in the end, or he would quit the show.

Klemperer can be seen in Judgement At Nuremberg, if you have ever seen that movie.

I've read here at IMDB that in Germany, they weren't allowed to say 'Heil Hitler' so it was replaced with something else, which I find peculiar.

Nevertheless, the show was a hit there, it seems.


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The Marx Bros are well known here, and amongst comedians recognised as gods of comedy.
Didnt realise the Germans in Hogans were exiles. There are many people in the Uk who fled the nazis, but amongst actors , Andrew Sachs who played the Spanish waiter in Fawlty Towers alongside John Cleese(Python)had fled Germany in 1935 with his parents.
A work colleague was on Family Feud here (called Family Fortunes) along with four other women members of her extended family. Its a good job Richard dawson didnt compere over here. Though I read he is now married to a woman he met when she was a contestant, so it worked for him.
Celia Imrie is a good character actress who is usually in Victoria Wood's projects.

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Richard Dawson is from Southampton as was Benny Hill.

Perhaps Klink and Sgt Schulz were from rich families and bribed someone to get a cushy posting in a POW camp rather than the Eastern front...

Seen Judgement at Nuremburg, Burt Lancaster plays a German judge on trial.

Yes, in Germany there are strict laws banning the Nazi salute, swastika, memorabilia as well as more serious crimes eg holocaust denial. I dont know if the former is to hinder neo-nazis or to sweep the past under the carpet.
Here in Britain the nazis are mocked continually and so many films and documentaries are about WW2. Pretty much the only films in B&W shown on TV are war films. There was a reaction against all this when the post war generation grew up eg in Hard Days Night
"I fought in the war for you"
"bet you're sorry you won"
Now their grandkids are in charge there is a new respect for that generation. We now have gone back to a two minute silence on November 11th whatever day it falls on not just on the nearest Sunday. Plus all sporting events that weekend have a two minute silence before kick off for the war dead.
There was mockery of Hitler and the Germans, from 1939 until the generation of comedians who were in the war retired or died. Gandhi said first the British ignored me, then they ridiculed me, finally they fought me. It was then I knew I had won.
Well we must not ignore the past, we no longer have to fight the Germans, so we mock them. Even comedians born thirty years after WW2, make jokes about the Germans. Now 84% of Germans werent born when WW2 ended and find it hard to understand how Britain cant forget.
Example when "Downfall" about the last days in the bunker was shown on TV in the UK for the first time, the trailers showed Goebbels shooting his wife, Hitler and Eva Braun getting married. The voiceover said "Downfall: a love story with a happy ending"

We do realise that Bug Tussle, Hooterville, South Park, Springfield are fictional. although Springfield Illinois must be fed up.



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Meant to tell you, an episode of Tomorrow children dealt with apparently youth in the 1970s thinking it was fashionable to dress like SS and salute Hitler and such. It was revealed in the episode that Hitler had really been a villianous alien.

I know an episode of Fawlty Towers had Cleese mocking Nazis. And an episode of Are You Being Served had the store selling German goods. This is the episode when Mollie Sugden and Trevor Bannister have the exchange.

She: I havent forgotten being flung on me back by a landmine in (Something) Garden, and it was the German air force that was responsible!

Bannister: And every other time she was flat on her back in (Something) Garden, it was the Amerian air force that was resonsible.

At best what America did during the 1970s was turned on the military, the Viet Nam war and so on. Any military characters in a show or movie are shown buffoonish, even seriously, they are like Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now.

Hollywood and mainstream is rather puzzled as to where to go now. They realize that making jokes about military people won't work like it did in the 1970s, but they don't want to say it is 'okay' for someone to serve in the military, fearing they will endorse some war.

There were war movies about Viet Nam, tho they were few and far between, unlike WWII. This was always a complaint of some sorts, that Hollywood didn't do alot of Viet Nam war movies.

We'll get little 'America was to blame' things still, such as that a Japanese sub was sunk before the bombing of Pearl Harbor, as tho that justified it.

Maybe I was too young, but what I recall most mid-1970s, since it was the American bicentennial, was how the country was founded stuff.

In the American version of Til Death Do Us Part, called All In the Family, they had a war deserter and he sat down to dinner with a WWII vet or something, stood up for his right and so on, and the Alf character, Archie Bunker, would have nothing to do with him. I think the episode aired in the 1970s to say ARchie was wrong, but watching it now, he looks like a man standing alone against society.

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Happy Fourth of July!

The episode of Tomorrow People with kids getting into nazism is the one I remember. The idea that Hitler was an alien lets the Germans who went along with him enthusiastically off the hook.

The movies about Vietnam are generally good ones, Apocalypse Now, Platoon, Gardens of Stone.

The US had quite rightly imposed economic sanctions against Japan in the thirties after they had invaded China. Japan does not have any fuel supplies of its own so it had to invade other countries in SE Asia that produce oil. To get away with this meant knocking the largest power in the pacific out of action. Hence Pearl Harbour. Yes the US did predict an imminent attack based on how much airplane fuel Japan had left and how long this would last. Japanese codes had been broken and USNI knew a fleet was underway but radio silence was kept and the unexpected target was attacked. Rather than Guam or drawing the Pacific fleet into a battle a long range carrier launched aeroplane attack on a shorebase. This was only second such attack ever undertaken, the first being earlier that year, the British Fleet Air Arm attack on the Italian Navy in Tarranto in the Mediterranean to keep Royal Navy control of the med.

Fawlty Towers has Basil (John Cleese) escaping from hospital suffering from concussion and cant stop mentioning the war to a party of German guests culminating in an impression of Hitler complete with goosestepping and salutes.

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Yes, our American independence. Looks to be another muggy one. Don't hear much of the fireworks anymore tho.

The Viet Nam war movies aren't a fave of mine. We basically had a trilogy, Platoon, Hamburger Hill and Full Metal Jacket, all came along in the mid-late 1980s.

I think Platoon played up the music bit where we see Willem Dafoe running more than anything. Hamburger Hill likewise has an interesting music bit at the end.

Havent seen FMJ, but they all just took the same approach, War is Hell.

We had Viet Nam tv shows around this same time, which also did the same thing.

I heard Viet Nam vets say Apocalypse Now is a good movie, but it has nothing to do with Viet Nam.

Oliver Stone would do the follow up, Born On The Fourth of July, the true story of the vet who was paralyzed in Viet Nam, played by Tom Cruise. Saw that one, havent seen it since. Bit more of 'war is bad' stuff.

I think there was a third one he did that no one recalls. Starred tommy Lee Jones.

The most interesting thing I've heard is that the war in Viet Nam is called the American war in Viet Nam. That's an angle I would like to see explored in a film one day.

Oh yea, and there was Robin Williams' good Morning, Viet Nam, which I have never seen.

Basically what we seem to be having here in America is the breaking away of the protesting, since it mainly involved yelling and making fun of the military, that isn't looking very noble right now.

Some have acknowledged it wasn't good to simply act like the war wasn't there, others look like they have their heads in the clouds when they speak about how brave they were with their protesting songs and stuff, in comparison to soldiers fighting for freedom.

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I sent off for all three installments of a German program called Heimat, and just finished watching the second one, dealing with the young musician, Hermann Simon, making it in the music business, only to return to his home.

As I watched the program, which interestingly goes from black and white to color and back, I wondered about other movies deliberately filmed in black and white, such as the movie version of Paper Moon, Schindler's List and the Elephant Man.

Raging Bull (1980) is another one, all in black and white.

How do movies such as these air in the UK?

Another one is Last Picture Show (1971) also by Peter Bogdanovich, who directed Paper Moon, but Last Picture Show is so 1950s Americanized, I doubt anyone elsewhere in the world would be interested in this silly little thing.

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Oliver Stone, who fought in VietNam, has made three movies about it.
Platoon – which dealt with his experiences as a soldier
Born on the 4th July was about the divisions in US society over the war and the indifference towards vets even from WW2 vets.
Heaven & Earth saw the war from the perspective of a Vietnamese woman who survived VC attacks, became a prostitute to survive and married a US marine played by Tommy Lee Jones.

The Deerhunter is probably the best film.

Apocalypse Now is as you say Heart of Darkness translated to Vietnam, but the story of moral degradation after seeing horror as you point out will resonate with veterans.

Full Metal jacket is a series of clichés about the war. It does however show the aftermath of VC atrocities against civilians as well as their bravery and the grudging respect US soldiers had for them as opposed to the ARVN.

Good Morning Vietnam is Robin Williams doing his act, dressed in uniform. The plot as the real Cronauer pointed out would have put him in Leavenworth to this day.

Tour of Duty – the TV series about a US platoon in Vietnam was shown late at night here. “Paint it Black” by the Rolling Stones was the theme music.

If you ever get to see it “The Odd Angry Shot” a film about an Australian army platoon in VietNam would shock US audiences. Good actors but the characters are phlegmatic and matter of fact, even when one of them is shot. No moral, no soul searching, no exposition of divisions in society. It just goes back to the time when Australia was a white European outpost that held back Asian expansionism rather than trading with them and accepting Asian immigrants as is the case now.

Vietnam 1941-79 fought four world powers, Japan, France, USA, China and naturally refers to the war after the enemy they were fighting at that time. There was a TV documentary series called "The Ten Thousand Day War" which told the story from the Japanese invasion until the fall of Saigon in 1975.

Black and white films do have to be classics before getting on the mainstream channels. Digital/Cable/satellite channels show B&W as part of a season of films by a director or of a genre, eg Stanley Kubrick season begins on Film Four this week so Paths of Glory, The Killing will get shown
Paper Moon is not shown over here, the TV series is not repeated.
Raging Bull is shown on various film channels.
Heimat was shown on BBC2 in the early 1990’s just after reunification.

Last Picture Show is often on film channels here. So many of the cast went on to have huge careers plus its about cinema so it resonates with people who watch a lot of films

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Terrestial TV has shown Schindlers List. BBC2 screened it. Better to have such films without commercial breaks. The last time a commercial TV showed anything without ad breaks was the repeat of "Jesus of Nazareth". The original screening had ad breaks and that came in for a lot of criticism.

The Elephant Man has been shown on BBC2 as well, but doesnt get screened even on film channels. Last shown as part of a season of films about disability.

Raging Bull was shown on Channel Four a commercial network. Now on film channels regularly.

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