Who's most vulnerable?


Of the sons and Alais, who would you say is the most emotionally vulnerable?

Alais seems the most probable choice, given her winsome personality. Her remark to Eleanor: "There's no sport in hurting me. It's too easy."

But each of the brothers divulges considerable vulnerability at certain moments. Most striking to me is Geoffrey: "I never remember anything from you and father warmer than indifference. Why is that?" "That was not an easy for question for me, and I don't believe I deserve an easy answer." That reveals a lot of pain behind all his scheming and bitterness and makes me feel sorry for him when I don't otherwise.

John, when he's sitting by the pigs after Henry says Richard will be king. Besides feeling sorry for himself, he tells Richard that Richard was the older brother that John dreamed of. Even Eleanor feels a pang of sympathy for him and cries out, "Oh, Johnny!"

Richard seems pretty vulnerable multiple times: in a few interactions with Eleanor, in his anguish that Phillip's love for him was false and a ruse to exploit him later, in his following sparring with Henry that Richard had always wanted Henry's love but never received it; it always went to young Henry.

The end of the cellar scene, with Eleanor weeping that she had lost Henry, the only person she'd ever loved, and could never get him back, and "Christ, Henry, you don't know what nothing is." Then, "I want to die, I want to die,..." Henry, meanwhile, is beaten and feels he has "nothing." I'd say that's a pretty vulnerable moment, but it doesn't quite count: they are so thick-skinned the rest of the time, and so lost in their vicious scheming and manipulations, that any vulnerability for them isn't the essence of what they are. For the others, it seems to me that vulnerability was at their very core.

I'm sure this qualifies as a "tl;dnr", but this isn't twitter.

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My sympathy's always been with Geoffrey, personally. That scene you mentioned is among the most heartbreaking in the whole movie, as is the moment where Eleanor says "You've loved me all these years?" like it had honestly never occurred to her before. Both in the film and historically, I think that Geoffrey was the best of them, and deserved both more credit and more responsibility than he got.


"Why is it that every time I need to get somewhere I get waylaid by jackassery?"

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He got plenty of responsibility; that was the problem. When he mentions that Henry will make him John's chancellor, he follows it with a bitter, "He gets to spend the taxes that I get to raise."

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Yeah, I always felt bad for Geoffrey. As scheming as he was, it was sad that he was the only one no one cared about in any way whatsoever. All of the others could claim at least a twisted affection from someone else - or at least they knew that they registered. Geoffrey could have disappeared and no one would notice. I mean, none of the characters.

Sooner or later someone on IMDB will give you the urge to drop kick a puppy.

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Suprisingly, Philip did care for him. They seem to have been close friends and when Geoffrey died, Philip was mad with grief. Well of course you can't be sure but so chroniclers say. So he didn't have to be that lonely after all

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You really ought to have paid more attention in history class!
Philip and Richard were the closest of friends, not Geoffrey at all!

OR, watch the movie again!!

Remember the lines - I spent 2 years in hell, and response, funny I didn't see you there!

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Thanks. Of course I remember those lines, and I've never studied English history closely in school - as I've always lived in Russia ^-^
I'm just reciting some historians' account, without any limitation, so both facts could equally be true.

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It has long been discussed amongst historians and academics that King Richard the Lion-Hearted might have been gay or at least bisexual. There is no doubt at all that he and Philip were once very close. I recall one historian's comment that "Richard was a Mummy's boy who over-killed his way round the world to hide his weakness". Read into that what you will!
Other English (later British) monarchs have been known to have had homosexual tendencies or discreet relationships. King William Rufus, Edward II, possibly King William (of Orange) and King James I of England and VI of Scotland, (same personage due the Union of Crowns).
To understand British history you ought to delve deeper into the history of our two Kingdoms of England, and Scotland. Therein are the roots of what and who we are today. I am Scottish, incidentally, but also a proud Brit!

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Thank you again. Especially for the quote about Richard - Churchill never told this part of the story ))) But honestly I don't know what exactly you are trying to teach me here. Wikipedia smiles to everyone irrespective of citizenship. The whole gay thing is no new to the world, king or no king, British or otherwise... Nor can British history be limited to sexual orientation of the monarchs.
Nice talking to you though. Here's a question for u, offtopic - do you agree that Hopkins is a strange choice for Richard?

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Not trying to teach you other than suggest you read even more of British history, although you seem to know a fair bit. We have had an interesting past and that's an understatement.
I would definitely hope our history in UK is not limited to the sexual orientation of our past rulers!
I am an admirer of Anthony Hopkins as an actor, and might have chosen someone else to play such an iconic Plantagenet as Richard, Coeur de Lion. Not sure who would have filled his shoes better, at the time the film was made, and would have to put my thinking cap on to come up with a suitable actor to play him in a new film, if made in 2013/2014.

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The play depicts Richard and Phillip as the closest friends but Phiilip allied with both of the others at ne time or another (for example warning John when Richard was freed from captivity) and Geoffrey was actually part of Phillip's court for a time, and it was in Phillip's company that he died. The account of Phillip throwing himself on Geoffrey's grave is from an early chronicle.


It is not our abilities that show who we truly are...it is our choices

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Ambiguity? Vulnerable, emotionally or politically?
If the former, Richard, if the latter, Henry.

All Richard had was force, if you like and don't forget Mummy!

Geoff as king? No one trusted or even liked him much and little respect. Poor Geoffrey.

Oh, but they did love winning, hence the tremendous story, in fact, I'd rephrase that, they feared losing more. That fear is an incredible force indeed.

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Twisted, but that rings a little true, especially between Henry and Eleanor.
As she admitted, it was what she lived for, and was she an expert at it!
Henry couldn't quite match it.
A warrior but lacked the sharpness of tongue.

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