MovieChat Forums > The Lion in Winter (1968) Discussion > Despite some anachronisms this movie is ...

Despite some anachronisms this movie is great because.. *SPOILERS*


There is, in my opinion, no film that better portrays the dank, dark, cold, and generally bleak atmosphere of living in medieval housing and medieval times. This movie eschews any of the romantic visions of the middle ages done in so many other films, and instead shows it how it was. Even kings and queens, though much better off than the peasantry, would've been living in damp, cold, and often dirty places, and rather than being done in full makeup and looking immaculate were by today's standards very unhygienic. I think that perhaps only Flesh+Blood and The Name of the Rose could compete with this film for portraying the Middle Ages in such a visceral manner. Feel free to agree or disagree. I think it does an excellent job of creating a cold atmosphere and it certainly convinced me that perhaps living in the Middle Ages wouldn't be so much fun after all.

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I mostly agree with you. However, I believe peoples' lives in those ages were even worse than we saw on this film.
The BBC did a really good little series some years ago, much lower budgeted than this great film obviously, but it did show accurately, for me, life for the everyday peasant folks in the British Civil War years. (Children of the New Forest).

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Thanks ronfirv, appreciate the suggestion. I will try and track that down!

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Actually TLiW, great film as it is, shows medieval royal life as it absolutely wasn't. Not even a minor 12th-century baron would have lived in the grey, rough stone-walled surroundings the director chose to use here, let alone the richest and most powerful king in Western Europe. In reality Henry's castles and palaces - even though he himself genuinely did dress as unimpressively as shown here - were dazzling with elaborate hangings, gold leaf, wall paintings executed in malachite green and lapis lazuli blue.

A couple of years ago the Great Keep that he built for Dover Castle was re-furnished in the style of his lifetime, and the contrast with the 'Chinon' decor in the film is staggering. See here, for example: http://s496.photobucket.com/user/shoshiplatypus/library/Kent%20Holiday%20April%20and%20May%202010/30%20Apr%20Dover%20Castle#/user/shoshiplatypus/library/Kent%20Holiday%20April%20and%20May%202010/30%20Apr%20Dover%20Castle?sort=6&page=1&_suid=141089005486404942702575448264

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Thank for the post and input. My original point (which I still stand by) was that rather than show medieval life as simply 20th/21st century life minus a few creature comforts, it shows it as closer to how it would've been. Dazzling as Henry's castles might have been, they would still have been drafty, dank, cold, and very uncomfortable compared to a centrally heated and clean palace today. The Lion in Winter captured the spirit of that much better than other films. The rest, I leave to people who know much more about the subject than I. ;)

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Recently the BBC broadcast Secrets of the Castle which explained both how a medieval castle was built and how the people working on it and inhabiting it would have lived - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04sv5nc

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hahaha yeah, the spirit of the 60s was so strong that even when doing historical films they couldn't resist.

I also think of the flight attendants on the spaceship in 2001: A Space Odyssey, dressed in their bright pink uniforms straight out of the 60s. ;)

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[deleted]

the bleakness is overdone actually. real medieval castles would have had more decoration, like tapestries on the walls, painted furniture etc. For instance, Dover castle has recently been redecorated to make it look as it would have been in henry II's reign, and it is much brighter than the castle in lion in Winter - more colourful decorations, painfed furniture etc.
of coures they didn't have the comforts and conveniences of 21st century life, but that is true of every period up until the 20th century, most people didn't have indoor plumbing for instance until the 20th century, and a bath was a once a week occasion for most ordinary people. And houses were freezing compared to modern houses, hence the common practice of people sharing beds for warmth at night, even well off people, and wearing nightcaps, having beds with curtains etc.

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[deleted]

Must be difficult to live your life surrounded mostly by people who will never be able too see the world as you see it.

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Although monks led a self-inflicted harsher life than others


That's very moot. Archaeological study of medieval cemeteries across Europe shows the opposite: skeletons excavated from monastic sites consistently show clear evidence that in their lifetime these individuals were better nourished, less stressed by unremitting hard labour, and in general longer-lived than the bulk of then population. A monk's life might have been austere, but it was still a cushy billet.

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Very true. The word "austere" is a much better word. It also depends on which Order of monks. As mediaeval records show they weren't averse to a little rumpy-pumpy down at the local bawdy-houses either. :-)

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I actually didn't notice the cold/dirty/unhygienic aspect very much, but there was one thing that bugged me a little: Like so many movies and TV shows where the characters are walking down dark corridors/tunnels/staircases with only a match or lighter or flame-torch as lighting, the filmmakers cheated in a way that's much too obvious. When Eleanor descends the stairs to the dungeon, you can see that her torch is not the only thing lighting her way-- the crew is adding extra illumination, seemingly more than is necessary, from some kind of floodlight(s). At one point she comes toward us through a doorway and this more neutral (white) "torch light" appears on the wall at our side of the opening a full second or two before the warm glow from her actual torch gets there. It looks very artificial.

I understand that from the filmmakers' viewpoint there could be technical reasons why the light from her torch might not be sufficient-- but are they right? I would think that, at the very least, it would make the shot look more raw and ominous. If the character's face was partly cast in shadow, or if long shadows were cast on the wall... well, wouldn't that be more dramatic, as well as more accurate? And if they must fill in with additional illumination, can't they be more subtle about it?

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I agree that that scene is stupidly brightly-lit, even by the convention of historical movies, in which single candles are routinely made to light an entire room. There's no way that in the 1960s they would have gone for genuine accuracy in this respect (we never saw that before the BBC's recent and wonderful Wolf Hall, and that was only made possible by HD video) but given that the whole point of the scene is that she's going into the dark terrible dungeon, you'd think they would have aimed for darkness and flickering shadows.

Could be of course that nobody was prepared to risk the film's biggest star falling down the stairs for want of light to see where she was putting her feet...

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I see both points, I guess it just didn't bother me that much because I felt like in most respects they did a good job of avoiding a lot of other Hollywood-style stuff.

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And if La Hepburn had suffered a life-changing injury in the name of absolute authenticity?

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Meh. They could have aimed a dim light at the stairs, enough to let Ms H. see them but not bright enough for us to notice. Anyway, that's all water under the dungeon now...

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