MovieChat Forums > The Killing of Sister George (1968) Discussion > Frank DeVol: Homophobe or Hypocrite?

Frank DeVol: Homophobe or Hypocrite?

posted 17 years ago by LordLustworthy
21 replies | jump to latest

I was just reading under the "trivia" section for The Killing of Sister George that DeVol was so repulsed by the bed scenes in the movie that he quit the project didn't work with director Robert Aldrich for years afterwards.

This goes against evrything I've heard about how heterosexual men feel about seeing two women.

My question is, do you think he was so revolted for moral reasons, or because the women were actually realistic in their portrayals and it wasn't something played out as a male fantasy, a la Cinemax?

I am suspicious and disappointed to say the least that a MUSICIAN (of all professional people) would be so homophobic.

"They're all gonna laugh at you! They're all gonna laugh at you!

[–] Harold_Robbins 17 years ago

DeVol was entitled to his opinion and reasons. I don't think it had anything to do with the concept of heterosexual men enjoying two women having sex, because they actually don't: what they do enjoy is the idea that in the absence of a man (i.e., themselves) two women will be so desperate for sex that they will turn to each other for sexual relief. What many people actually find so abhorrent about homosexual activity - male or female - is that the participants could prefer it over heterosexual activity. So the men don't entertain the idea that the two women are actually doing it because they want to - they're doing it because he's not there - if he were, they'd have no need of each other for that, except perhaps for the novelty.

"I don't use a pen: I write with a goose quill dipped in venom!"---W. Lydecker

[–] FewPicklesShort 17 years ago

Harold I think you are wrong about that. I am a heterosexual guy and I personally get off on the idea of two women getting off purely on each other. It has nothing to do with the idea that they might be desperate for a man.

If it were just a case of guys getting off on women being desperate, we would expect scenes of solo female masturbation to be just as popular in porn films as lesbian scenes are. But I don't think that's the case.

[–] FortySecondStreetFreak 16 years ago

You're absolutely wrong...AND an obvious sad little homophobe yourself 'Robbins'.

[–] Crawfordfan 16 years ago

Didn't DeVol provide the soundtrack for the previous Aldrich camp-fest, 'The Legend of Lylah Clare' (inspired by Dietrich and Von Sternberg), in which the title character is revealed as having been lesbian or bi? This is a rather discreet aspect of the film's narrative, possibly explaining DeVol's involvement; whereas lesbian visibility (clearly threatening to hetero society - hence Mercy's need to 'kill' George, in order to draw attention away from herself), is central to the narrative of Sister George. Thus it seems DeVol, like many other heteros, possibly felt homosexuality an unsuitable topic for a film - whereas 'Lylah Clare' relegates it to a subplot. Either DeVol felt Sister George exploited its subject (a view common among lesbian and gay critics and audiences at the time), and didn't want to be involved, or else he felt that lesbian visibility (and lesbian sex!) was an unsuitable theme for a motion picture. Thus, possibly he stands accused of being homophobic! More evidence needed, me thinks!

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] miriamwebster 16 years ago

Before everyone goes off half-cocked, does anyone even know if this "factoid" is true? Where's the evidence?

[–] WarpedRecord 16 years ago

Regardless of whether we're partially or fully cocked, I suspect we'll never know the answer. But I suspect the composer of the "Brady Bunch" theme would have objected to his music being used in any sex scene, regardless of the genders of its participants.

[–] Loomis_Orange 16 years ago

I'm truly not following you around War-ped! I just check into to your profile and see where you been and if the film you're commenting on is a film that I've seen and enjoyed... I follow you in and make a comment under yours! Is that stalking? Nah

I always wondered why men like to see two women going at it? I was enjoying the diverse comments on this subject. Feel free to continue divulging secrets of the male mind.. I will be extra special quiet for that.

Not long ago I spoke with a fellow of the homosexual persuasion about this film on the "Notes of a Scandal" board. I went in there after watching that film to say that the whole time I was watching it, I was thinking of "The Killing of Sister George" That guy told me that "Sister George" is the film that created in the mind of the world the stereotypical "dyke" Before that, nobody knew a how to picture the male part of a lesbian couple. It was a complete and utter mystery. Sister George, he said, was damaging to the gay and lesbian community because it gave the viewer a wrong discription. I didn't bother telling him that Frankly I didn't care whether or not Sister George was damaging or gave the viewer a wrong discription, I dug it anyway!

I love Aldrich's films!

Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in the night? ~~ Jack Kerouac

[–] WarpedRecord 16 years ago

Oh, darling Mavvy-Chin, you are welcome to follow me to the ends of the earth. As long as we have excellent films like this to keep us company, this world will have been worthwhile.

As for why men would fancy seeing two (or more) women going for a roll in the hay, I am as far as they come from an expert on sexuality, human or otherwise, but my theory is it strokes their libido while they stroke something else because it allows them to see women as purely sexual creatures who cannot control their urges. I suspect they also fantasize being in the middle of this girl-on-girl action.

Mind you this is NOT my perception or fantasy and not the reason I watch films like this. Like you, I love Aldrich's films, and this is one of his finest, perhaps second only to "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" That film, of course, has it own appeal to men, and for different reasons. "Sister George" features one of the boldest "bull-dyke" performances ever by the late great Beryl Reid, who completely made the character her own, probably to the point of damaging her future career options because she was so convincing.

Interesting you should mention "Notes on a Scandal," because I kept thinking of Dame Judi Dench's character while rewatching this and wondering how much she was inspired by Beryl's bravura performance. I suspect quite a bit – though I'm not sure Judy even played a lesbian in that film or just someone who had no capacity to love anyone but her cat.

And yes, I'm familiar with the gay and lesbian community's objections to this film as sending the "wrong" message, but what a powerful message it was – and how brave of Aldrich and Reid and the rest of the cast to portray this message onscreen. Stereotypes have a basis in reality, after all, and this film isn't a documentary anyway but a look at one very sad, very abusive, very addicted aging lesbian. I'd watch it again in a heartbeat and defend this as one of the most important films ever made.

[–] Loomis_Orange 16 years ago

Oh Warped - I read your post carefully and you let the cat out of the baaag (so to speak) You said you "watch movies like this" I'm shaking my finger at yuuuuu.

I watched something tonite called live nude girls or something like that. It starred Dana Delaney (I love her) I forget the name of it but there were lesbian scenes in it and I thought of how I felt about such things. I started to laugh hysterically! the male fantasy of lesbianism has always made me laugh. It's so.... misguided and simply could not be farther from the actual truth as to why two women would have sex with each other.

Dear Men In General - I have a sharp pointed needle between my fingers - Plink bling .. poof.

Women have sexual contact with each other because they each find the female body more attractive and desirable than the male form and no amount of waxing and buffing, even sodering, could ever change that! Women do not like the feel of a fake breast so it's alright not to have those... those melon-type bags of saline or whatever it is. Women do care about the woman behind those big plastic bags tho. It's dangerous. Women do not expect other women to endanger their lives in order to make their lovers "juiced"! The sagging is alright too, even hairy legs on occasion and there is no need to "shave down there" to make "it" more palatable. Don't expect their women to exersize like mules and deprive themselves of necessities like cheesecake and milkshakes and pizza! Even the gray hairs don't matter. I am not a lesbian BUT I am a pissed off woman so maybe that makes me a bull dyke in training! (wink)

Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in the night? ~~ Jack Kerouac

[–] WarpedRecord 16 years ago

Now that's the right attitude, Mavvy! Should you ever find the urge to cross over, I'm sure you'd find more than a few lasses willing to give you a try. I subscribe to a site called Awful Plastic Surgery that shows the horrors of going under the knife.

Regarding "lesbian" scenes in mainstream films, these appear to be rarely on the mark and serve mainly to perpetuate the straight male fantasy of what woman want from each other. I guess filmmakers are more interested in following the dollar than telling true stories.

Did you ever see that movie Gena Rowlands made with Jane Alexander, "A Question of Love"? I saw it when it aired on TV, but I'd love to get my hands on a copy.

And speaking of Dana Delaney, I share her birthday. OK, this rambling has gone on long enough. Time for some cheesecake and pizza!

[–] Loomis_Orange 16 years ago

I have never seen that film with Gena and Jane - Must look it up. I think it sounds familiar tho... I will check out the surgery site. I dig looking at the end product of too much botox and surgery on famous people but... they deserve it! (clink)

Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in the night? ~~ Jack Kerouac

[–] WarpedRecord 16 years ago

Here's the link:
http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/
The site's awkwardly designed and kind of hard to navigate, but I get their daily RSS feeds, which makes it easier. Lots of sad before and after shots of former beauties like Meg Ryan and Cheri Oteri. I'd write more, but I'm at work now ...

[–] Loomis_Orange 16 years ago

This Site Was Exactly What I Was Looking For and to think... all I ever had to do was bring up botox! Thanks. I'm soooo catty

Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in the night? ~~ Jack Kerouac

[–] WarpedRecord 16 years ago

Glad you enjoyed it! Now, don't get crazy ideas and go all Courtney Love on us. I love you just the way you are!

[–] chrismartonuk-1 16 years ago

Men enjoy watching women having lesbian sex (only if they resemble Playboy bunnies mind!) because they can watch naked women having uninhibited sex without any male dangly bits getting in the way and spoiling the view.

[–] preppy-3 16 years ago

"Men enjoy watching women having lesbian sex"

Not all men. I'm a gay man but I've had two str8 roommates who have zero interest in lesbian sex scenes. One of them used to watch "The L Word" on On Demand...and fast forward through the sex scenes! Also I've asked str8 male friends about it and most of them have no interest in lesbian sex scenes. So it seems quite a few guys don't like them.

[–] chrismartonuk-1 16 years ago

Lesbianism is a subject that leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths.

[–] WarpedRecord 16 years ago

With proper hygiene, that needn't be the case.

[–] chrismartonuk-1 15 years ago

Too many deluded people think lesbians could find the right man if they pullled their fingers out!

[–] hockeyhrs 8 years ago

There's long been debate about whether gay people are
(a) born (it's in their DNA)
vs.
(b) made (it's caused by events that occur in their childhood)

Either way, very few argue that gayness is a considered CHOICE that one adopts after a careful trade study. They just are that way either by DNA or environment, and we leave them unburdened by volition in the matter.

So why isn't the same reasoning applied to homophobes? i.e., Either Mr. DeVol was (allegedly) homophobic by nature, or he learned it from older people in his environment (and there was nobody of the non-homophobic persuasion to disabuse him of those ideas).

In other words, why do we let gays be pawns of the random forces in nature/society, but we act as if the anti-gay (homophobes) are masters of their universe and can control their feelings 100%?

And why should musicians be less vulnerable to queer-hatred than non-musicians?