MovieChat Forums > The Green Berets (1968) Discussion > Your thought on John Wayne in this movie...

Your thought on John Wayne in this movie?


My parents were watching this movie earlier and I heard my mom saying John Wayne had no more business being in a movie about Vietnam than Shirley Temple, because he didn't serve in Vietnam so he didn't know what it was really like, 'and then to say to people who were actually there 'oh I know how you feel', no you don't.' I don't know that I agree, I haven't seen the movie but I really don't think that's what he was doing. How about everybody else?

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Seems like a disingenuous point of view. By that rationale, he should never have made any cowboy movies either. Likewise, modern movies like Saving Private Ryan shouldn't be made either, since none of the actors were there.

I think your mum is taking a rather simplistic view of things. And I'd argue that unless she was a Vietnam Vet. then she has no place to criticise.

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Well her first husband went off to Vietnam before they got married and he came back...changed to say the least, so she got a front row view for several years what it did to people.

But yeah I said the same thing, he wasn't a real cowboy but he played them all the time too. And he wasn't a cop but he played McQ.

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I have to agree 100% with your mother. John Wayne made a career out of playing
tough soldiers, yet he never served in the military. The contemporary John Wayne
would be Sylvester Stallone, who hid out in Europe when he was of draft age,
making semi-porn movies, then later returned to the U.S. to make the cartoonish
"Rambo" films, pushing the image of a deranged, inarticulate but brutish Vietnam
vet. He, like Wayne, should be ashamed of himself.
When my mother watched THE GREEN BERETS over the weekend, she was particularly irritated by the ages of the soldiers. Several of the actors--
Wayne, Aldo Ray, and the actor playing another officer seemed to be pushing
60, yet they were all playing Vietnam soldier boys. The reality was that the
average age of the typical Vietnam soldier was about 19.


I'm not crying, you fool, I'm laughing!

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That's why it's a movie and not a documentary.

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Indeed, the average age of troops in Vietnam was 19. But that doesn't mean that there were no older soldiers. In almost every conflict of the last century, the senior officers in theatre tend to be far older than the troops on the front line.

Would the older ones have been involved in combat ops. as portrayed in the film? For the most part, probably not. But then, would the movie have been made without John Wayne in the lead?

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These were special forces regulars and as such well over nineteen.

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I would say it's each to their own. Several of my relatives served in the army at various times, but they still watched and enjoyed war movies. Maybe it depends on the conflict. Your mum doesn't like Vietnam because of it's effect on her ex. I'm not sure of the opinion of my late uncle on Korea, but I know he was quite happy to watch other stuff (although he was a bit uncomplimentary about Americans after he was shelled by them by mistake :s). Would our current Vets have issues with movies set in Iraq or Afghanistan?

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Taking into consideration the fact John Wayne was a hardcore alcoholic, I would have to believe that his thinking and ability to abstract was seriously impaired by his life long alcohol abuse. At this point in his career, he was little more than a bad joke. And in the case of "The Green Berets", an unfunny joke.

To watch the film it becomes painfully obvious the drunken old fool needed a stunt double whenever he scratched his fat white ass.

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I disagree with your mother. For one, the idea that Wayne is a draft dodger is actually a myth. Secondly, as another poster said, how many of the movie stars who star in war movies actually were in the army? I don't see anybody complaining about Tom Hanks being in a war movie. Third, many people believe that the reason Wayne made all the uber-patriotic movies was to "make up" for not joining the military and that it was the greatest regret of his life.

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Agreed entirely, John Wayne was too old for service during World War II and it upset him so he became John Wayne the Super Patriot to make up for it.

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[deleted]

It's a bit more complicated than that. He tried to get into the O.S.S, but except for a minor little mission for them in New Guinea during a USO tour to see what McArthur, who didn't trust them was up to, they just weren't interested. He seems to have tried to get into John Ford's Field Photographic outfit, but after a while put off trying to enlist in earnest. Because of age and his status as a father, he wasn't a prime candidate for the draft. But his lack of a war record did trigger a lot of guilt which helped turn him into a super patriot latter.

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Too old? Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda, Clark Gable, Eddie Albert, Douglas Fairbanks Jr, among others, were the same age or older than Wayne and that didn't stop them from serving.

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Most of them were bachelors or had no children(Fonda being an exception).

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One ought to consider each individual as an individual. On December 8, 1941 when President Roosevelt requested a Declaration of War against Japan that was soon returned the people that you list were in various stages of their lives:

John Wayne was 34-years old, married with four children was the sole source of support to his family. A deferment in such a case would be granted in a heartbeat by any draft board with any heart. He had no military experience and no military skills. Had he enlisted it is reasonable to conjecture that the army would have put him in film production as the did with most actors at that time. His star was rising and the war could benefit his career greatly, while entering military service would do nothing for the military that several million others (16 and a half million during the course of the war) could not do as well or better.

Jimmy Stewart was 33-years old, single and childless. His father was living and he had living brothers and sisters. He was about to be nominated and then to win the Best Supporting Actor Oscar for "The Philadelphia Story," but he didn't know that. He was also a trained and experienced pilot, so he campaigned to be accepted into the US Army Air Forces and after he was accepted he campaigned to be assigned to combat duty. He won that one too, and remained in the Air Force Reserve until he retired in 1964.

Henry Fonda was 39-years old, married and the father of two. He enlisted in the Navy and was packing cargo until the Navy ran him through OCS and put him into Air Intelligence (briefing and interrogating fliers, I would conjecture) for two years. It doesn't look like he did a lot compared to General Stewart, but he certainly did more than Mr. Wayne.

Clark Gable was 40-years old, on his third marriage, but had no acknowledged children. Apparently Loretta Young had a child named Judy who had been fathered by Major Gable during an affair in 1934. Neither parent ever publicly acknowledged the child's father. Clark Gable enlisted in the Army Air Forces, selected for OCS, commissioned as a lieutenant and rapidly promoted to captain. It's interesting how the military tends to do that, commission and promote actors apparently because they are actors. I don't include General Stewart in that group for the obvious reason that he earned everything he got. Anyway, Major Gable flew five combat missions in as many months primarily focused on making a recruiting movie for aerial gunners. I don't think the movie included a disclaimer that Major Gable was the only commissioned aerial gunner in the Army Air Forces. Still, he got shot at and flying in those bombers was dangerous business.

Eddie Albert had just started his movie career and had not progressed beyond bit parts. He was 35-years old, single and with no children. He enlisted into the Navy in 1942 and received a direct commission in 1943. He had a degree in business from the University of Minnesota, so I think the Navy commissioned him on that basis. He earned the Bronze Star with "V" device for his heroism during the Battle of Tarawa.

Douglas Fairbanks Jr. was 32-years old and married. He had three children with his second wife, but it is not clear whether any of them had been born by the time that war was declared. They had been married for about 30 months at that point, so it is possible, but not probable that all three children had been born. It is more probable that at least one had been born. His wife may have had independent means as she had been formerly married to a grocery tycoon, but his situation may have been closest to that of John Wayne's. At the time that war was declared Captain Fairbanks was serving as Special Envoy to South America, having been appointed to that position by President Roosevelt. It is not surprising that he was commissioned directly into the US Navy and assigned to work as a naval commando under Lord Louis Mountbatten. He remained a reserve naval officer until retiring in 1954 with the rank of Captain.

Whether you want to disregard John Wayne's acting because of his lack of military experience or honor him as a hero for portraying heroes on the screen is a personal choice. I choose to do neither. I will honor the memory of John Wayne as a great movie personality and for displaying American soldiers and sailors heroically.

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Stewart won Best.Actor Gable insisted on going through the regular process.

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It was kind of funny watching Dad's Army cut sick. I think the Duke was more comfortable in the saddle.🐭

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John Wayne knew he'd be ridiculed for his non-service in WWII, yet he still made this movie in support of those who were serving in Vietnam.

I believe part of him wanted to do penance for his non-service by exposing himself to ridicule.

His friends who did serve (Robert Montgomery, James Stewart, Henry Fonda) etc. didn't hold Wayne's non-service against him. Montgomery even told director John Ford to knock it off when Ford kept throwing Wayne's non service against him in front of the cast of "They Were Expendable".

Wayne never made a war movie that was anything less than respectful to those who did serve in our wars.

Soy 'un hijo de la playa'

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John Wayne played here as any other western of Andrew Victor McLaglen.
Only change his yellow gripped Colt by an M 16.
Zero results.

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