MovieChat Forums > Camelot (1967) Discussion > redgrave's hypocrisy over lyrics

redgrave's hypocrisy over lyrics


Vanessa Redgrave refused to sing the line "or better still, cause a little war" because of her alleged antiwar views, but had no trouble with the violent lyrics in You May Take Me To the Fair

Of course, this is in line with her real life stances, while she proclaimed that she was antiwar, she never had anything but praise for the actions of the PLO.

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That song was so bloody and violent, and the queen loving it and agreeing to the terms, that I was surprised they put it in a musical -- especially one supposed to be some golden age of Christian morality.

I would have deleted / taken out this whole song -- it spoils the movie. No more golden age of innocence -- its as violent as any gangsta hit.

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What? No! I adore that song. The new Marrin Mazzie version is especially good with the knights they cast.

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I can see where you're coming from, but isn't that kind of the point--to point out that Arthur's dream had flaws in it from the start?

This is underlined a little more in the stage version--that is, when it includes the song "Fie on Goodness." (Lyrics: http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/camelot/fieongoodness.htm)

This takes place not long after Mordred's arrival, where he's stirring up unrest among the knights. But the thing is, he's not creating this dissent, he's only exploiting feelings that are already there. As the knights point out in this song, they're itching for some real violence again and are tired of being paragons of virtue.

Of course, it's not that Arthur's dream of a perfect society wasn't laudable, and isn't something to strive for. But, as White pointed out, there were flaws in the way he went about it (there's a long passage towards the end of the novel, on the eve of battle, where Arthur tries to piece out what went wrong and wonders if the very idea of "possession" isn't where most of the problem lies). At the end, he is content enough to know that the dream will survive and that others will keep trying for it.

Anyway, in response to the OP...the line "Never have my face recruited for/Launching countless ships?" was substituted. But the thing is, that line (referring to Helen of Troy) ALSO had to do with war. It was the Trojan WAR Helen's adultery caused...not the Trojan Garden Party.

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Fie on Goodness is on the Original Cast recording but actually was removed from the show, along with You May Take Me To the Fair, shortly after the opening. Possibly they decided that these 2 songs with their violent allusions didn't fit the rest of the show.

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Have seen stage version with both of them.

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I'm sure in 55 years there have been many with them, but they were not performed in the original Broadway show, or in the 1980 revival.

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I remember that song ("Fie on Goodness!") and the fact that I had the 33 1/3 record of the Broadway production before the film came out. I'm pretty sure I still have it.
Loved Robert Goulet as Lancelot. He had a golden voice.

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''Of course, this is in line with her real life stances, while she proclaimed that she was antiwar, she never had anything but praise for the actions of the PLO.''

Well, unlike Israel, they are not a foreign invasion force that builds its claims on racism. I hope you enjoy Palestine being recognized in the UN. Your racist side lost that battle, chum!

Formerly KingAngantyr

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She also has a past history of being a revolutionary Trotskyite and supporting murderous dictators.

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And even the Germans see her so-called "anti-Zionism" for the racist anti-semitism it is, always has been, and always will be:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/german-judge-rules-anti-zionism-is-code-for-anti-semitism/

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And even the Germans see her so-called "anti-Zionism" for the racist anti-semitism it is, always has been, and always will be:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/german-judge-rules-anti-zionism-is-code-for-anti-semitism


And? The German state doesn't allow civil service posts to be held by people with socialist political views and they are funding fascist anti-semites in Ukraine... a great endorsement.

Also the "even German" bit just shows what a detestable poor excuse for a human being you (and Zionists in general) are. What because all Germans are natural racist Nazis? Moron. But then again racism is the vice of Zionists as it is a racial ideology from the fin de siecle era after all.

Also if we are going into that territory most of the world knows that Zionism is a racist idealogy and it was recognised as such when the majority of nations in the UN voted that it was. Only the US and its allies with their powers of veto and blackmail got it official removed. Because it is okay for a group of people to claim they racially own a land and evict the current inhabitants because their ancestors lived there two-thousand years ago and they are less brown. Ah, the civilised and progressive first world!

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As an aside it is also not a good idea to try to use Germany as a model in these regards anyway as in an effort to show they aren't a Nazi country, they have long history of pandering to any form of Zionism. Because supporting the ethnic nationalism of a group their country once oppressed is of course the best way to show how liberal and cuddly they are.

And this is about the government and not the whole people of course.

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And? The German state doesn't allow civil service posts to be held by people with socialist political views and they are funding fascist anti-semites in Ukraine... a great endorsement.

Germany and the US fund Ukraine and arm Ukraine because Ukraine does not want to be part of Russia.

Get it right.

It has nothing to do with Antisemitism.

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Germany and the US fund Ukraine and arm Ukraine because Ukraine does not want to be part of Russia.

Get it right.

It has nothing to do with Antisemitism.


Except the Ukrainian rebels have been shown to be anti-Semitic and the main cause is actually that they want to hang on to the Russian and Tartar majority regions that were illegally incorporated into the Ukraine by an intoxicated Nikita Khrushchev and then never moved back into Russia (which they were part of before the early 1960s) because at the time it didn't really matter.

The war didn't even start because of any Russian invasion or some call to "join Russia" it started when the far-right started a coup d'etat against the not as far-right and democratically elected government ahead of an election they knew they weren't going to win. This was partly over trade deals and the issue of NATO membership not about being annexed by Russia.

The parts of the country that were oppressed by the Ukrainian majority of the Western Ukraine then rebelled against the coup and some of those areas voted to join Russia while others declared themselves independent republics.

So no it isn't about the fact "Ukraine does not want to be part of Russia"!

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[deleted]

Typical liberal. says one thing, does another. look at the anti trump crazy libs, hypocrisy at its finest!

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She was the 1960s equivalent of today's woke mental cases. To expect anything rational or consistent from such lunatics is a waste of energy.

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