First liberal film? - Bonnie and Clyde (1967) Discussion

[–] thsmdh 12 years ago

It's not the absolute first, but it is amongst the first New Hollywood films that convinced other filmmakers to break taboos involving sex and violence.

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[–] marvelass 11 years ago

Actually, Bonnie and Clyde is considered the first film of the so-called New Hollywood, followed by The Graduate which was released four months later.

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[–] vnisanian2001 12 years ago

Hey, don't call me an idiot, it was just a simple question I asked.

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[–] Tchoutoye 11 years ago

There were liberal films before Bonnie and Clyde, until the McCarthy era blacklisting put a stop to them. Charlie Chaplin and Elia Kazan were probably the most well-known liberal film makers that put some of their political views into their films, although (with the exception of The Great Dictator) not too directly. Salt of the Earth (1954) is a more in-your-face liberal film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047443/

Personally I think too much is made of the "New Hollywood" label as per "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls". Bonnie and Clyde is very much a continuation of earlier fare, albeit sexed-up and dumbed-down for a larger audience.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] vnisanian2001 11 years ago

And of course, just about every right-winger hates this era of Hollywood (which still exists today), because that was when many Hollywood stars began thinking they have every right to insult anyone who disagrees with them. Jane Fonda and her actions in Vietnam is said to have been the first.

Not to mention this was when Hollywood began blindly giving people who did terrible things a pass just because of their "artistic talents". Roman Polanski is said to have been the first.

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[–] davannacarter 11 years ago

And of course, just about every right-winger hates this era of Hollywood (which still exists today), because that was when many Hollywood stars began thinking they have every right to insult anyone who disagrees with them. Jane Fonda and her actions in Vietnam is said to have been the first.

Before this era, studios could blacklist a star, director, writer, producer, or other person working in Hollywood for any offense real or imagined. I read L.B. Mayer's bio "Lion of Hollywood" and he was known as the most powerful man in Hollywood for a time. I can't remember her name, but an actress brushed off L.B.'s advances because she wouldn't have an affair with him. She said she liked his wife and only considered him her boss. L.B. Mayer ended up blacklisting her from Hollywood. Less than 4 years later, a woman who had been considered a star was no longer able to find work in Hollywood.

So I think this era is better for actors.

Not to mention this was when Hollywood began blindly giving people who did terrible things a pass just because of their "artistic talents". Roman Polanski is said to have been the first.

Hollywood began turning a blind eye to people who did terrible things decades before this era.

Errol Flynn and Charlie Chaplin still had work despite their charges of statutory rape. Robert Mitchum still had work despite his marijuana charge. Tallulah Bankhead was considered notoriously slutty. Guys like Spencer Tracy, Clark Gable, Gary Cooper, Henry Fonda, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart, and many other leading men had constant affairs. So did Hollywood executives like Harry Cohn, Darryl Zanuck, L.B. Mayer, and Jack Warner. Harry Cohn's office had a door that lead directly into the dressing room of Hollywood actresses working in his studio. Cohn and Zanuck were notorious for having sex with women and then putting them in as extras for 6 months before discarding their contract. These women were called "6 Month Girls".

Sorry friend, but Classic Era Hollywood was anything but wholesome.

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[–] nlualum82 10 years ago

The Grapes of Wrath looks like a total promotion of socialism to me and The Manchurian Candidate shows us that Hollywood had anti-GOP sentiments long before the 60's.

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[–] marktayloruk (2502) 3 years ago

Cagney was a faithful husband. Nothing wrong with having affairs. Actors and others should be judged entirely on their acting regardless of their private lives.

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[–] Forlorn_Rage 9 years ago

Jane Fonda and her actions in Vietnam is said to have been the first.

Hardly. As far back as WWII, Lew Ayres' career was ruined because he preferred to serve as a medic rather than an active soldier. Then, there was the blacklisting for anyone who didn't kiss up to HUAC. Many careers and lives were ruined as a result.

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[–] wylierichardson-966-922691 9 years ago

If you are referring to Roman's accusations of statutory rape, that didn't occur until the 70s. He actually began his directing career in the 60s.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Petronius Arbiter II 9 years ago

Was this the first film made that launched the new, liberal Hollywood?

IMAO, that would be "Spartacus" in 1960. Used blacklisted screenwriter Dalton Trumbo under his own name, at Kirk Douglas' insistence. Based on a novel by a "known communist," also blacklisted. "Spartacus" was a great big middle finger waved in the face of crusty old sellouts like Elia Kazan and Ronald Reagan, who were only too happy to get ahead by backstabbing their friends and colleagues in front of HUAC, and the nation.

Now, as it happens, "Spartacus" itself isn't really that liberal, and neither was Kirk Douglas, but on the whole, it's a hell of a lot more liberal in the political sense than "Bonnie and Clyde."

I don't really know where the OP gets the idea that "Bonnie and Clyde" is all that "liberal" a film. Anti-authoritarian, yes, but much too cynical to embrace any particular political ethic.

This film's Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow aren't revolting against the dire poverty of West Dallas and the brutal Texas prison system, the way the real Bonnie and Clyde were. They're revolting against boredom and anonymity. If you didn't know any better, you'd think the real Parker and Barrow were a couple of fashionably alienated middle-class suburban teenagers. With guns. And, apparently, a death wish.

...It's also a mistake to think of Hollywood-- Old Hollywood, New Hollywood, any Hollywood in any era-- as being anything other than middle-of-the-road at the end of the day. In Hollywood, money talks, everybody else must stand in line and wait patiently if they want to be heard, eventually, maybe. Or maybe never.

"New Hollywood" is nothing more than shorthand for new ways of making movies, and "Bonnie and Clyde" isn't really that, either. Warren Beatty and his friends may have done about as much as they could on their own time and their own dime, but they still needed Jack Warner to greenlight this film before the cameras could actually start rolling.

At about the same time as Warner greenlit B&C for Warren Beatty et al, over at AIP, penny-pinching Roger Corman greenlit "The Trip" for Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper. A year or so later, Fonda and Hopper collaborated again on "Easy Rider," basically producing the whole thing on their own time and their own dime, and ended up presenting it to Columbia as a fait accompli. Seeing as how the film was already in the can, Columbia saw no harm in agreeing to distribute the thing; never suspecting, so the story goes, what a hit they had on their hands.

...And that, I would argue, is the true birth of "New Hollywood," such as it is. Radical chic on the outside-- sometimes-- but behind closed doors, pretty much business as usual on the inside. "It made what kind of profit margin? Peter, Dennis, dear boys! Do it again, would you please?"

See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9EA4-nv6Mk ... for a much more detailed overview of some of the many changes in the American movie business in the '60s.

"I don't deduce, I observe."

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[–] InherentlyYours 9 years ago

I realize every film and/person needs an obligatory political reference these days, but no. Unbelievable. No, the first liberal film was "The Brain That Wouldn't Die"

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[–] 9 years ago

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