The good doctor believes god made man; the bad one believes it's all due to evolution.
Gee, wonder which one was gonna be the bad guy.
If that was their idea of foreshadowing or throwing in a subtle hint, they must have assumed an audience of idiots.
Bad enough they mad Pleasance the bad guy.
No, no - Pillage first, then burn! Stupid Vikings...
I agree with you. American films are full of this kind of "conservative" (in the bad sense) political correctness. Of course the whole idea behind FV is ridiculous like most science fiction. IF by some miracle you COULD reduce this submarine to microscopic size then the matter density would be approaching that of a neutron star. Gravitational gradient problems aside how, for instance, could the Proteus be destroyed by the immune system? The attack occurs after the crew has left and before their/it's size has increased (it seems). Or why didn't the surgeons simply remove the submarine after it entered the whirlpool ... reintegrate ... then miniaturize and start again.
shareIn the novelization, Asimov addressed the mass/density problem by having miniaturization take place at the atomic level (yes, shrinking atoms!), with mass being reduced proportionately to volume. It was explained that objects could be miniaturized by being manipulated from a fourth-dimensional realm outside of the normal space-time continuum, the way we can enlarge or reduce 2-dimensional images in our 3-dimensional universe.
Okay, so it's a bunch of pseudo-scientific malarkey. But at least it was an attempt at explaining the miniaturization process, where the movie gave no explanation at all.
And in Asimov's 1980's sequel (a novel he wrote independently), he eplains that Planck's constant is reduced within the miniaturization field. Don't remember where all the mass went.
But, yeah, even when I saw this movie as a child, I was annoyed at the God stuff.
"The truth 24 times a second."
Miniaturization taking place at the atomic level would make getting air from the lungs impossible. The air molecules would be too large to breath! But it's just a movie, right?
Gotta love the morality of making the atheist the bad guy and then killing him. Remember kids, say your prayers every night, or else!
Let's not forget that the Catholic Church found Galileo guilty of heresy in 1633 for suggesting that the earth orbited the sun and maintained that position until 1992. Makes me wonder why we have so many news reports about the pope in modern reporting. We should demand equal reporting of issues by all religions, including the Pastafarians.
Well gee whiz, considering how modern Hollywood believes in offending people of faith all the time, even though the overwhelming majority of people in this world are people of faith, I for one find it refreshing that this film comes from an era where such sentiments about faith were in reverse to what we have today.
Maybe to keep things even, you should also be offended by the plug for Hinduism we get at one point?
Do you find the racism and misogyny of the era refreshing as well?
I thought it was hilarious how in the film, they let the "good doctor" give his God argument, but then they're interrupted before Pleasense can even retort.
"Oh no, she's pulling me into Avatar! The visuals will be stunning but the story will be bullsh!t!"
What "racism" is there in the film? That's about as weak an argument for justifying anti-religious bigotry as I've ever seen since the same arguments used by people to show their indignation over "racism" is something they will conveniently ignore when it comes to bigotry against an entire group of people because of their religious beliefs (as Hollywood loves to do with anyone from the Judeo-Christian tradition).
You obviously I believe find moral relativism, gratuitous sex and violence and anti-American political screeds that are typical of this era "refreshing" from your standpoint. :)
That wasn't an argument, I was just pointing out the humor in you acting like Hollywood was more open minded then. And no, I didn't say from this film, I said from this era; back when film was a little more primitive, hence the bigotry toward any religion that wasn't Christianity. As for your argument that modern cinema is against religion, how so? Sure, there are a few movies that depict a religious nut like The Mist, or things like Religulous, but there's just as much God stuff like Signs and that Ben Stein movie. Everyone has a voice now, but I guess you would just prefer it like the old days - you either believe, or you're dirty commie and need to be blacklisted.
I don't know if you added or forgot a few words in your second paragraph, but I THINK you're saying that I like that stuff. Well, yeah, I'm fine with violence as long as it has a point, and there's nothing wrong with the human body, especially if it's Ludivine Sagnier's. As for anti-American propaganda, I think Hollywood is just willing to admit the country has problems that need fixing. Sort of like how you guys are threatening to leave the country if health reform passes. Where's your patriotism, Rush?
"Oh no, she's pulling me into Avatar! The visuals will be stunning but the story will be bullsh!t!"
"hence the bigotry toward any religion that wasn't Christianity."
Yeah right, that Arthur O'Connell sure was bigoted toward Hinduism in the film, wasn't he? And I guess "Diary Of Anne Frank" was bigoted toward Jews?
"As for anti-American propaganda, I think Hollywood is just willing to admit the country has problems that need fixing."
Which means in their view letting Al Qaeda win the War on Terror since they believe America is evil, and imposing socialism on the masses while the Hollywood fat cats continue to live their cushy lifestyles.
"Sort of like how you guys are threatening to leave the country if health reform passes. Where's your patriotism, Rush?"
That is not what Rush said since he said he has no intention of not living in America. However, I'm still waiting for Alec Baldwin to make good on his threat to leave the country after the 2000 Election.
"Yeah right, that Arthur O'Connell sure was bigoted toward Hinduism in the film, wasn't he? And I guess "Diary Of Anne Frank" was bigoted toward Jews?"
I suppose they were respectful to some other religions. Except atheism, of course.
"Which means in their view letting Al Qaeda win the War on Terror since they believe America is evil,."
Actually, I'm pretty sure their view is "find Al Qaeda and stop oil hunting".
"That is not what Rush said since he said he has no intention of not living in America."
Maybe you're thinking of Rush Smith. I'm talking about this guy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/limbaugh-ill-leave-us-if_n_49 1536.html
"Oh no, she's pulling me into Avatar! The visuals will be stunning but the story will be bullsh!t!"
It's not a question of you "supposing". The examples I cited proved otherwise. Now maybe if you're so bent out of shape over Pleasance's lack of "equal time" to Kennedy's remark, maybe you should also be asking why Edmond O'Brien didn't go into a discourse about the problems of Hinduism?
Rush said that he would seek medical treatment in Costa Rica, which is not the same as going to live there, unlike Alec Baldwin and his threat to leave if the 2000 Election didn't go his way. Baldwin should leave for eight years to make up for lost time!
Why does me having a problem with the film making atheism look bad mean I should want them to slam Hinduism?
He said the words "If this passes, I'm LEAVING the country." Leaving the country isn't the same as going elsewhere for doctor checkups (one that has universal health care, hilariously). I don't know if he retracted this, but that is what he said. Listen to it yourself. And Baldwin isn't someone who slams others for being unpatriotic, unlike Rush and his merry band of "If you don't like it, you can just get out!" preachers.
"Oh no, she's pulling me into Avatar! The visuals will be stunning but the story will be bullsh!t!"
"And Baldwin isn't someone who slams others for being unpatriotic,"
Oh really? Alec Baldwin is the guy who once openly called for the stoning of Congressman Henry Hyde because he was chairing the committee to impeach Bill Clinton. That sir, is my definition of unpatriotic in the extreme and had Rush ever called for the "stoning" of say, Barney Frank, he would have been driven off the airwaves.
And my point re: the film is that if you have a problem with the traditional Judeo-Christian system looking good, then as an atheist you should also be offended by a good word for Hinduism that takes place.
Well, defending a president by stoning congress kind of cancel each other out.
But I never said I have a problem with them making Christians look good, or even that I have a problem with Christians. I just said I was offended by the negative stereotype Pleasence portrayed.
"Oh no, she's pulling me into Avatar! The visuals will be stunning but the story will be bullsh!t!"
Hah, just saw this for the first time.. enjoyable film, but having watched quite a few older scifi movies, I'm not really taken aback, but reminded how much more God was in the lives of Americans. (example: Forbidden Planet not 5 minutes into the film: "The Lord sure does make fine worlds" XD )
Of course the cold atheist turns out to be the conspirator.. They also do a heck of a job making sure he, for his non-believing character, reads his lines like his soul was already sent to hell before his body even died.
When they're in the lungs watching blood cells become oxygenated, he says, with a stone cold face, something along the lines of 'not a miracle, just blah blah blah'.. I'm pretty sure any real doctor, theist or not, would find immense fascination and wonder in such a site. Don't call it a miracle, but admit it's incredible doc! You're making us look bad!
@Eric-62-2
Okay, you lost all credibility by actually admitting you listen to anything Rush *beep* says.
"Which means in their view letting Al Qaeda win the War on Terror since they believe America is evil, and imposing socialism on the masses while the Hollywood fat cats continue to live their cushy lifestyles."
You think liberals actually believe that bull**** you wrote? I know you're been watching WAY too much Fox News. And don't act like your boy isn't some fat cat himself making a living off of catering to and exploiting the insecurities/fears of paranoid right-wing nuts like yourself,and living a nice big cushy lifestyle himself. I guess you believe Obamacare is some kind of whacked-out conspiracy, too.
Ah yes, the faux 'when people say they liked the good old days, racism and mysogyny have to come with it' argument, as though one must come with the other. All it does is prove the person making the statement knows they'll lose the argument, and thus add senseless caveats to make it seem they're correct.
shareI think it is funny that American Evangelical Christians are always whining about movies offending "Christians" and "People of Faith",when it comes to Evolution and God(There is no Evolution "debate",Evolution is a fact and that is it,only in the USA do any significant number of people find it controvertial,and none of them are scientists) .They forget that Fundamentalist Christianity is not mainstream in the rest of the World.Most of the Globe's Christians belong to Churches which have no problem with Evolution and have been long reconciled to it.
I say these things as one who respects mainstream Christianity,and and could in no sense be described as "liberal" in my country,the UK.
Gordon P. Clarkson
this was the 60s. it was the norm to hate on non-christians.
---------------------------------------------
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.
This was 1966, in the middle of the Cold War. The point of this dialogue was to underscore that Pleasance was a Commie. Commies were notorious for being atheists and materialists, who believed that society would inevitably evolve into a communist state just as life evolved into homo sapiens.
I know what you're thinking: "Who cares?"
The impression I got regarding Pleasence saying "not a miracle", was that it was foreshadowing his exposure as the agent of "the enemy", which at that time was commie soviet union.
And not trying to get into any debate, I read something on the internet (so it has to be true!) just this past week about a Republican member of congress, who's a doctor, who doesn't believe in evolution, and believes the Earth is only 6,000 - 8,000 years old.
"My girlfriend sucked 37 d*cks!"
"In a row?"
That the very concept of God and morality meant that the "good" doctor would believe in them. Also that the "bad" doctor would not believe in God and morality? Even in this age THAT would seem painfully obvious.
shareYeah - seeing Blofeld as one of the crew members alone lit some powerful warning lights. Him expressing atheistic sentiments was laying it on thick.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
yeah but it was different time back then, if remade today it would be more "scientific"
so many movies, so little time