MovieChat Forums > The Blue Max (1966) Discussion > Was about time they made a decent movie ...

Was about time they made a decent movie about the 'bad guys'

posted 18 years ago by D_vd_B
14 replies | jump to latest

Not that I sympathize with germany in either world war, but the soldiers were not their leaders and so their deeds may be praised as much as those of the allies. Even in modern films they are still portrayed as a lying evil group of not so nice guys that will use cruelty on every ocassion they are shown.

Good movie. Germans were normal humans too that did not want to kill. If only more movies could show this (also in another context/war) our ideas might not be as twisted as they are now.

[–] tonymaher8 18 years ago

HI. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE LOSERS ARE ALWAYS THE BAD GUYS.AS FOR THE GERMANS IN 1930S. THEY WERE A NASTY PIECE OF WORK.AFTER THEY VOTED HITLER INTO TO POWER A RED HAZE CAME OVER THEM AND TO SAY THAT: THE GERMANS WERE NOMAL HUMANS TOO: IS PUSHING IT A BIT .

[–] D_vd_B 18 years ago

well...at least they were no more evil than pre-WWI Brittain, post-WWII USA or the soviet union under Stalin. Ofc, evil people like Hitler, some imerialist, Bush or Stalin can never do their wrongs on their own, but a governement can be helt responsible for deceiving it's people.

[–] IvanAtlas 17 years ago

Das Boot is another great film that portrays war through the eyes of the bad guys. And, I agree the German people were not bad people any more than the Russian people were during the Stalinist regime of the Soviet Union. The German people were victims of Hitler and the Nazi party as well.

How many of us would have done the right thing in those circumstances? Do as you are told, keep quiet, or you and your family will die. Protest the leaders in power and you and your family will face imprisonment or be executed. It's easy to suggest we are noble and honorable now sitting somewhere comfortably not facing similar and real circumstances these people experienced in their real lives.

I'm sure, given the state of the world today, many, if not most of us, would have reacted in a similar way.

Honestly, to compare Bush to Stalin or Hitler is absolutely ridiculous. The suggestion to do so illustrates a willing suspension of disbelief and lack of knowledge history and current events.

[–] IvanAtlas 17 years ago

The people were no more evil or abnormal than you or me. Try to imagine you living there in those times. Would you keep your mouth shut to keep yourself alive and prevent your family from being imprisoned or executed?

A low percentage of Germans back then were actual members of the Nazi party. Read how the Nazi party came to power and ask yourself what would you have done? What could you have done if you have lived there and faced the exact set of circumstances as did the average German citizen.

I highly suspect you would have done whatever it took just to stay alive as well.

[–] Pegasuspizza 17 years ago

You are somewhat correct and somewhat wrong.
The most fanatical branch of the German army was, as you know the Waffen SS.
Composed primarily of volunteers. They as you know were responsible for the atrocities on the Eastern Front ( mass executions, including civilians, etc.)
On the Western Front, they were the ones behind such episodes as the killing of American prisoners at Malmedy and the entire extinction of a French village ( herded citizens into Church, burned down church).
Also the guards and personel at the concentration camps when bored would come up with novel ideas for killing inmates. None of this was from orders from above.
They as non Nazi Party members believed as fervently or even more in the dictates of the Hierarchy.
Any time you see a documentary on the rise and fall of the Third Reich, the common theme you hear from people that lived through that time, is "WE WANTED TO BELIEVE"..what we were being told..
Nazi Party membership peaked at approximately 8.5 million out of a total population of 69 million, so yes under 12%, but when you disperse that membership among households, you get a much greater impact, especially when the population of those of 18 or older is less than 40 million...so the percentage is over 20%.

[–] CmdrCody 17 years ago

Hey RudolfhetRendier: I don't suppose you've heard of the novel and two movies made from it...."All Quiet On the Western Front?" You might catch the story if you have a free moment.

I think the critics found the movies and the book... "decent."

CmdrCody

[–] Pegasuspizza 17 years ago

Commander Cody:
Excellent point. I was going to bring it up also.
The original "All Quiet........", despite the crude early sound, is with out question one of the most powerful anti-war movies ever made. Many of the same themes are seen again in films like , "Platoon", "Das Boot", "Paths of Glory", "Full Metal Jacket", etc.
Back in the day.........the book was required reading in High School.

[–] nmitsialis 17 years ago

Pegasus:

As it was with me...BUT in order to understand Post WW1 Germany's mindset I need to read 'Storm of Steel' by Erich Junger---that memoir is a TOTALLY different bird!

nickm

[–] eagle150 15 years ago

You should probably read a little more about history before making claims on historical incidents. You are talking about the second world war, while this movie takes place in the first world war. The first world war had nothing to do with Nazis (but quite a lot with nationalism), Germany still had a Kaiser back then!

I'm a heroine addict, I need to have sex with women who have saved someone's
life. - Mitch Hedberg

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] naseby 17 years ago

May be if you'd assassinated Hitler earlier, that might be the case. Try 'Cross of Iron' from a German perspective - I don't know if you're familiar with it, but though it's doubtful if ANY German/Nazi ever spared a Russian boy-soldier the way they did in that film - or discouraged rape among the 'unter-menschen' women. Yes, as some people have mentioned here, a lot of guilt from Britain, USA with blood on their hands too, but you are talking about showing the Germans as not all bad 'IN FILM' on what - the Eastern Front?

[–] Brent54 16 years ago

There are several other films that have a sympathetic portrayal of the Germans
"Cross of Iron" is a version of war on the Eastern Front from the German side, following the story of a reconaissance squad under James Coburn's Sgt Steiner. James Mason is in the film as well playing a colonel that is different from the general of "The Blue Max". Carl Schell's brother Maxmillian is also in the film as an arrogant Prussion aristocrat officer.
"The Battle of Britain" was fairly neutral in its portrayal of the Germans showing the German pilots as simply doing their job while showing the leadership as pompous and overbearing
"A Bridge Too Far" showed the SS doctors brokering a truce to deal with the wounded at Arnhem and Maxmillian Schell was a likable character in the film as opposed to COI. A fairly balanced portrayal
"The Night of the Generals" gave a fair portrayal of the Germans, both sympathetic and non sympathetic. Donald Pleasance as general Kahlenberge shows disgust for the plans for the destruction of the Warsaw ghetto, calling them monstrous while Peter O Toole has a great time as the brutal SS general Tanz.
"The Eagle Has Landed" was a very heroic and sympathetic portrayal of German paratroopers as opposed to the SS. Michael Caine and Robert Duvall manage to elicit a desire to see them succeed in their plot and Donald Pleasance as Himmler is equally chilling.
"The Desert Fox" was also a sympathetic portrayal with Rommel being played by James Mason who brings to the character some of the qualities he brings up in COI's Col Brandt and Blue Max's Klugermann.
"Enemy at the Gates" was fairly neutral
"The Desert Rats" was not as sympathetic as "The Desert Fox" but still fairly neutral with James Mason again in the title role as Rommel
"Valkyrie" was obviously sympathetic.

"The Blue Max" makes the German pilots and the squadron leader very likable while George Peppard's character, Bruno Stachel is like a Nazi bully. James Mason's general in this is not as nuanced as his Rommel or Brandt but still conveys the sense of honor of the German Army officer and it is possible to see his character as a general who will in the future go along with the rise of the Nazi's.

[–] ballston54 16 years ago

How about "Stalingrad"?

[–] PenelopeTree 15 years ago

I was, and still am, surprised that a movie was made in '66 with all the characters-- good and bad--on the German's "side."

I wanna be sedated....