MovieChat Forums > The Blue Max (1966) Discussion > German WWI monoplane really did exist

German WWI monoplane really did exist


No one discusses the prototype World War I Imperial German Fokker VIII monoplane that was depicted in the movie, "The Blue Max", since most people assume it to be movie fiction. But in fact it did exist.

However, for some odd reason, the movie's prop department came up with what looks to be something that resembles the post-war, "Spirit of St. Louis" monoplane. Charles Lindburgh flew his special-built monoplane across the Atlantic in his famous solo flight.

In the last year of World War I, fighter aviation technology and aerospace science were advancing quickly. Aviation experts estimate that fighter plane technology and aerospace science advanced 15 years in just 4 years of aerial combat. German aviation science experts foresaw the time of the higher-performance monoplane fighter. They put their theories to practical test with the new Fokker VIII parasol wing monoplane. The type is called, 'parasol wing' because the single wing is mounted on top of the fuselage, instead of below. The next twenty years of aviation science would prove the parasol wing to be a technological and fighter aviation dead end. Parasol winged monoplanes could not take the stress of high-G maneuvers in the sky.

This was the point of the unstable German monoplane being pointed out by the plane's designer to the imperial German field marshall. But whoever researched the Fokker VIII for, "The Blue Max", did his job. In real war history, the Fokker VIII was indeed rushed into mass production by a desperate Imperial German government, facing war exhaustion and overwhelming enemy numbers and resources, now that the Americans were pouring into France. And as the movie pointed out, the first Fokker VIII monoplanes did suffer catastrophic wing mounting failure. As a result, the whole Fokker VIII monoplane fleet was grounded during the follow-up investigation. The answer was to quickly reinforce the parasol wing, which apparently fixed the wing failure problem. But precious time had been lost. There were only mere weeks left before the November 1918 Armistice. Subsequently, the Fokker VIII does not have much of a fighting record to post.

The monoplane's chief designer had already detected the weak wing stability problem without knowing the exact technical cause. This technical fault, along with the inherent structural weakness of parasol-mounted wings, and then put through swirling fighter maneuvers by an eager but unknowing Lieutenant Stachel (George Peppard), made the consequential crash almost inevitable. The man was deliberately sent to his unknowing death, and he ecstatically embraced it as shown in the movie. Lieutenant Stachel has achieved everything he desired in life. He already had the blond, blue-eyed, tall, handsome boy looks. He got to bed the beautiful, blonde Countess Krugerman (Ursula Andress at the height of her beauty), but more, he achieved beloved celebrity status and the social elevation he so desperately craved. But it all proved fatally ephemeral.

SUMMARY. Parasol winged monoplanes exist today as small sport and recreation airplanes. There's nothing unsafe about a parasol winged airplane. It's just that you're not going to find yourself maneuvering around the sky like it was a P-51 Mustang or a A6M5c Japanese Zero. You're just going to cruise slowly around the sky, enjoying a fantastic view of Mother Earth because parasol wing airplanes don't obstruct the view below. The 1918 German aviation engineers knew there was something unstable about the new Fokker VIII monoplane and needed more time to work the bugs out, which they didn't get. More, the parasol wing monoplane proved ill-adapted to fast fighter airplane aerial maneuvers. Why the movie's prop department couldn't manufacture some reasonable facsimile of the historical Fokker VIII is a mystery. Google the Fokker VIII and you can find a lot of information and photos of actual reproductions.

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I think the genius of this film is that it brings in so many historical references, like the monoplane situation, and makes them directly relevant to the plot around Stachel.

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[deleted]

Indeed, but unlike the Eindecker, the DVIII had a solid wing mounted above the fuselage, giving clearer all round vision, below at least.
I'm sure several replicas of this have been made and it would've been great to see one in The Blue Max, but you can't have everything, and the film already gives us more than our value for money, authenticity wise.
Does anyone know what that silver monoplane actually is?

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I'm sure I've seen it on the internet somewhere that it was a French aircraft, possibly a Morane, but can't remember the details.

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Wikipedia's page on the film says the monoplane was "played" by a Morane 230.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Max

--Jack, you have debauched my sloth!

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True, while reading imdb I saw that a French Morane parasol plane from the 1920s was used to depict the Fokker D.VIII. I suppose there was a practical budget limit to fabricating a facsimile D.VIII.

According to Internet information, the D.VIII was fast, 127 mph, comparable to the excellent British SE.5's 130 mph. The D.VIII was reputedly agile and maneuverable, despite its single wing. I can only attribute that to fine aerospace engineering design and a low wing loading of the broad chord wing. Fighter planes were lightweight at this time, constructed of tubing, doped canvass and wood. So the D.VIII wasn't lugging around some alumnium monocoque stressed skin fuselage. Information is scarce but reportedly the D.VIII was a good flyer and possessed no aerodynamic flaws or vices.

The D.VIII would show the way of the future to monoplane fighters. Still, the world's major powers clung to the biplane design to the bitter end, fielding biplane fighters years into World War II.

The Polish semi-parasol monoplane fighter plane of 1939 is worth examining. It appears to have borrowed heavily in concept from the D.VIII. According to history, it was able to hold its own against the high performance Bf 109C due to its maneuverability but found itself totally outclassed by the immortal Bf 109E.

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I didn't mention that in all the decades from the time I first watched, THE BLUE MAX, I assumed the World War I German monoplane in the movie was purely fiction. It wasn't until a few years ago that I discovered via the miracle of the Internet that the German monoplane did in fact exist, as the Fokker D.VIII parasol wing-mounted figher plane, capable of about 120 plus mph.

The problem is that the Fokker D.VIII was invisible to historians and the plastic model industry for the past 90 years. I like to read books on fighter airplanes. Despite all the information and plastic model airplane kits of World War I fighter planes, not once have I come across the Fokker D.VIII. I could understand if the D.VIII was just a prototype that never saw operational deployment but the D.VIII did see some combat time, although measured in mere months towards the end of WWI.

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Despite all the information and plastic model airplane kits of World War I fighter planes, not once have I come across the Fokker D.VIII.


http://www.wwi-models.org/app/sbj/srch/Macn.php?action=uModelList&; subjId=133



"I told you it was off." The Jackal

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dsbjo says:

"Despite all the information and plastic model airplane kits of World War I fighter planes, not once have I come across the Fokker D.VIII."


That's nonsense. In 1966 when I saw this movie in the theater and was seven years old, the monoplane made it's apperance and I turned to my Dad and said, "Is that supposed to be a Fokker D VIII?". The Fokker parasol monoplane was not "lost to history" (as this same poster previously claimed), it was and is very well known, most associated with Ernst Udet, second leading German ace behind Richoften) who flew the plane in the last stages of the war. The problems with the DVIII (or EV, as it was also known) were not the same as the Blue Max monoplane, ie: excessive torgue from the rotary motor and a design flaw resulting in excessive wing loading. The DVIIi had an inline engine and the structuaral failures associated with early models were not as a result of a design flaw, but shoddy and rushed workmanship (the same problem occurred when the DrI Triplane entered service). While the DVIII was a very competent fighter, it's performance was not a significant improvement over bi-plane designs like the Fokker DVII, Platz DXII or the Siemens-Schuckertt DIV which went into service at or about the same time (the Fokker bi-plane earlier).

As for models, In 1966 Guillow made a built up balsa and tissue paper rubber_band flying model of the DVIII which I owned. Since that time many plastic models of the plane have been made, notably by Eduard in their excellent WWI line. The plane has also been featured in numerous board and computer war games as far back as "Fight in the Skies" and "Richoften's War" and the PC game, "Red Baron". To say this aircraft is unknown, or even not well know is just ludicrous.

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No, I am quoting what jeffyoung1 said about the Fokker D.VIII. I then posted a link where jeffyoung1 could view many different Fokker D.VIII models which he cannot seem to find.

Personally, I believe the Fokker D.VIII is anything but "lost to history" and that the Aurora model company made a kit for that plane as early as the 1960s.


"I told you it was off." The Jackal

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My fault dsbjpo, it was jeffyyoung1 who made the silly statements about the DVIII and not you.

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Here`s a rather interesting twist on the films ending.
VERY similar events revolving around the test of the Zeppelin-Lindau D.1.

Despite carrying the Zeppelin-Lindau name, the division headed by Claudius Dornier the D.I, first flown on 4 June 1918, was designed by Adolph Rohrbach, head of the Zeppelin-Staaken division. Like its few Zeppelin-Lindau forebears, this latest single seat, biplane fighter used light alloy as its primary structural material. Externally, the 185hp BMW IIIa powered D.I was an exceptionally clean design, with fully cantilevered wings and tail unit, bereft of any external and, hence, drag-producing bracing struts or wires. Rushed through the design and assembly phases in order to compete in the second 1918 Adlershof fighter competitions, the disassembled D.I was dispatched by train immediately after its maiden flight. Reportedly, while still in transit, someone re-checking at the factory discovered that the upper wing attachment fittings were too weak and alerted Adlershof not to fly the aircraft until strengthened fittings could be rushed to them. Sadly, whether the information was not received, or simply ignored, the D.I was flown twice after re-assembly, Hermann Goring being the first service pilot to fly it, followed by Hptm Wilhelm Reinhardt, who lost his life after the upper wing detached in mid-air. At least two other D.Is were built, as two found their way to the US soon after the war, to be tested by the US Army and Navy, respectively. Earlier German testing had been critical of the aircraft's lack of speed, said to be 124mph at sea level, and general heaviness of the controls.

Wonder what would have happened if it crashed one flight earlier.
Interesting that at the time Reinhardt was Richthofen`s replacement as JG 1`s commander and it was Goring that replaced him!
"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

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