MovieChat Forums > Star Trek (1966) Discussion > A Heraldic Mystery

A Heraldic Mystery

posted 8 years ago by MAGolding (1240)
8 replies | jump to latest

I just saw "Bread and Circuses" again on Heroes and Icons on 03-27-2017.

And yet again I wondered what the conflict was between the Roman Empire on that Planet Four of star system 892 that didn't what any Starfleet interference in their planetary affairs and Starfleet personnel who had sworn a sacred oath to never interfere in the affairs of a planet.

KIRK: The SS Beagle was the first ship to make a survey of this star sector when it disappeared.
SPOCK: Then the Prime Directive is in full force, Captain?
KIRK: No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet.
MCCOY: No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilisations.

KIRK: If I brought down a hundred of them armed with phasers
CLAUDIUS: you could probably defeat the combined armies of our entire empire, and violate your oath regarding noninterference with other societies. I believe you all swear you'll die before you'd violate that directive. Am I right?
SPOCK: Quite correct.
MCCOY: Must you always be so blasted honest?
CLAUDIUS: But on the other hand, why even bother to send your men down? From what I understand, your vessel could lay waste to the entire surface of the world. Oh, but there's that Prime Directive in the way again. Can't interfere.

So if Claudius Marcus knows that Starfleet can't interfere why was he worried about the Federation learning about his world:

KIRK: Go on.
MERIK: He convinced me it would be unfair to this world to carry word of their existence elsewhere.
CLAUDIUS: Contamination. Can't risk that. Oh, you'll understand as you learn more about us.

Anyway, Memory Alpha has a picture of Proconsul Claudius Marcus:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Claudius_Marcus

And also a closeup of the patch on his jacket. The patch is black, with what appears to be an achievement of arms with a shield, a crest, and a motto scroll.

It seems like a strange coincidence that they have designs that so closely resemble Earth achievements of arms. But maybe it is, to coin a phrase: "An amazing example of Hodgkins's law of Parallel Planet Development."

And what is even more amazing, the patch resembles a specific coat of arms from Earth that I recognized tonight watching the episode!

Can you recognize the coat of arms?

Was it the famous motto of Ancient Rome?

https://www.google.com/search?q=SPQR&espv=2&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiSl93aqvjSAhWH0iYKHTzADNgQ_AUIBigB&biw=1280&bih=894

Was it the coat of arms of the city of Rome:

https://www.google.com/search?q=coat+of+arms+of+the+city+of+rome&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih0pSLrvjSAhXB7yYKHSz4CNsQ_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=894

Was it the ancient Roman eagle?

https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+Roman+eagle&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVgqaQq_jSAhVEKyYKHRo_AvgQ_AUIBigB&biw=1280&bih=894#imgrc=_

Is ii the coat of arms of an eastern Roman or "Byzantine" Emperor?

https://www.google.com/search?q=coat+of+arms+of+Byzantine+emperor&noj=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjsjLnBrPjSAhVC6yYKHWq-B94Q_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=894

Is it the coat of arms of a Holy Roman Emperor?

https://www.google.com/search?q=coat+of+arms+of+holy+roman+emperor&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjieGHrfjSAhVCTCYKHfELB9YQ_AUIBigB&biw=1280&bih=894

No, it was not any coat of arms that would logically be associated with a Roman Empire that developed on another planet due to "Hodgkins law of parallel planet development".

But it is not the coat of arms of a family that I am related to, or of a local community or local business. I don't have any special relationship to that coat of arms from Earth. It is a coat of arms a lot more famous than that of some random family, school, business, or municipality. So if I can recognize it, you could recognize it if you are equally interested in heraldry.

Can anyone recognize the coat of arms from Earth that the jacked patch of Claudius Marcus resembles?

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

It was made up to vaguely resemble something authentic, just like all those fake countries and the fake language in "Mission: Impossible."

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

I wouldn't worry too much about questions like that, it was probably whatever they found lying around the studio costume department.

[–] MAGolding (1240) 7 years ago

Quite possibly it was just a heraldic patch from the wardrobe department's vast collection of odds and ends.

But it seems identical with the coat of arms of a quite famous Earth person, family, or institution. Some people might want to know whose it was.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Maybe it was created for another production, one that had the time and inclination to do heraldic research?

Because I can't see how historical accuracy would be ANY kind of priority for the Trek staff, it was a sci-fi show about the future and this episode wasn't set on Earth anyway, just a planet that was remarkably similar to Earth. Why would anyone involved with the production take an extra hour to flip through enough library books to find a genuine Roman family crest?

[–] MAGolding (1240) 7 years ago

You are missing the point of this thread. It is about who or what the coat of arms belongs to. It belongs to a famous person, family, or institution.

Wouldn't you find it interesting if it was the coat of arms of Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin, who invented Zeppelins, or of the British East India Company, or of Christopher Columbus, or of the state of Pennsylvania, or of Galileo Galilei, or of the Kingdom of Hawaii, or of Yale University, or of The Seventh United states Cavalry, or of George Washington, or of MacBeth, King of Scotland, etc., etc., etc.?

[–] brux (14840) 7 years ago

You are missing the point of this website ... just tell us what you found out and cease your silly games. Who is going to care? Unless you have some kind of fan theory ... most of which do not make any sense or even if they did do not have any relevance.

[–] MAGolding (1240) 7 years ago

To quote Cyrano Jones in "The Trouble With Tribbles":

"If I did, what would happen to man's search for knowledge?"

But since apparently nobody wants to do any research on their own.

This is the coat of arms that was granted in 1596 to John Shakespeare of Stratford-on-Avon in England. You may have heard of John's more famous son.

https://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/blog/shakespeares-coat-of-arms/

http://theshakespeareblog.com/2011/11/the-facts-about-shakespeares-coat-of-arms/

[–] Moonglum9 (11340) 7 years ago

"This is the coat of arms that was granted in 1596 to John Shakespeare of Stratford-on-Avon in England. You may have heard of John's more famous son."

Of course! Who doesn't know of Bobby Joe Shakespeare?