MovieChat Forums > The Monkees (1966) Discussion > Gary Lewis and the Playboys were the rea...

Gary Lewis and the Playboys were the real fakes

posted 14 years ago by mercury4
30 replies | jump to latest

The Monkees were labeled fakes when they first came out. Nobody had anything to say about Gary Lewis and the Playboys though and they were the real fakes. Not only did Gary Lewis and the Playboys not play their own music, but they didn't sing either. Gary Lewis could not sing. There were session musicians and even session singers. The Monkees were a fictional band that became a real band. Gary Lewis and the Playboys were supposed to be a real band, but never were. They couldn't even play on the Ed Sullivan Show. When they appeared on that they faked it. Gary Lewis and the Playboys were the real fakes. I can name how many songs the Monkees played on. I can name a whole album they played on. Even when they were doing the early songs, at least that was them singing. More than I can say for Gary Lewis and the Playboys.

[–] stones78 14 years ago

The Monkees still suck though.

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

So did the Stones in the 70's (including '78)

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

newhavencoliseum, thanks. I'm glad there are some Monkee fans here. Our friend that came here is obviously on the wrong message board. He should go look for the Rolling Stones message board. I tried to make a point and maybe even open up a discussion, but all I got was a Monkee hating Stones fan coming on here knocking the Monkees.

As previously stated, Gary Lewis and the Playboys were fakes. The Monkees became a real band thanks to Mike Nesmith fighting for creative control.

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

mercury4, you are right, there were a lot of bands in mid 60's (and still, today) that did not / do not play there own backings, not to mention the ones that do not sing either. Herman's Hermits had half of the future Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones) play on many of their releases, including some of their big hits. The Byrds all did not play on their version of "Mr. Tambourine Man", the Beach Boys used session musicians to fill out their sound on many of their recordings. These are just a few examples. I am also a Rolling Stones fan, although I am partial to the Brian Jones era Stones. It seems, in my opinion, that the Stones albums from "England's Newest Hitmakers" through "Let It Bleed" pretty much all had several listenable tunes on each of them, where it seems that most of the post Brian Jones albums (most, but not all) have only one or two listenable songs on them. Anyway the Monkees which began as a TV show about a band, and ended up as a band no longer with a TV show, simply makes the Monkees, in my opinion, as a one of a kind music/entertainment group. I guess you could say a very commercial group with slight artistic merit before Mike Nesmith led the revolt against Don Kirschner, turned into a group with a lot of artistic merit with a lot less commercial success. Personally, I like all the Monkees music, the songs they did not play on, the songs only they played on, as well as all the songs some Monkees played on, etc.

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

I discovered a couple songs during the Kirschner time that Mike Nesmith fought for. One of them was Sweet Young Thing. I like the song. Mike wrote it and sang it, Peter Tork played guitar on it. I also found a song called Papa Gene's Blues. Same thing there with Nesmith and Tork. Then there was also Mary Mary. Mary Mary is a cool song. I consider it a Monkees song because Mike wrote it, Mickey sang it, and Peter played guitar on it. I think that was the first song they were able to do where most of them were involved. I also like some of their songs that they didn't play. But I prefer the stuff they played.

Back to what you were saying about the session musicians. Was that Jimmy Page playing guitar for the Herman's Hermits song Silhouettes? I heard Page played sessions for them, but I didn't know which songs. I never knew John Paul Jones was in there too.

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

I am honestly not sure about "Silouettes". As far as John Paul Jones, he was quite a busy sessions guy before joining sessions guitarist Jimmy Page (formerly of the Yardbirds) in the New Yardbirds, which eventually was changed to Led Zeppelin. Another Jones, Brian Jones played uncredited quite a bit on the Beatles "Sgt Peppers" album, and uncredited on their "Baby Your A Rich Man", and then credited on the b/w of Let It Be, which was "Baby You Know My Name (Look Up The Number), although Billy Preston is the only artist to actually have his name appear with the Beatles on a record label. (not including the beatles and Tony Sheridan and With Frank Ifield) I believe JPJ is credited for "strings" on some of the Stones "Satanic Majesty's" album. As far as "Sweet Young Thing" and "Papa Gene's Blues" Peter Tork played 4th chair guitar. If you buy the book "The Monkees" by Andrew Sandoval, the book lists almost every single musician, lead vocalist, background singer, etc, for 99% of the Monkees recordings. The book can be found on ebay or amazon for a very reasonable price. I find it an absolute must have for any die hard Monkees fan.

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

There was a great article in the Wednesday March 23, 2011 Wall Street Journal about Hal Blaine-the drummer man. The article was about session drummer Hal Blaine and the Wrecking Crew, a group of sessions musicians that played on 1000's of recordings from 1958-1976. I do not know how to do a link on a computer, so there is not one in this post. Anyway, the article also mentions an upcoming documentary by Denny Tedesco, son of the late sessions guitarist Tommy Tedesco (who incidentally wrote some of the Partridge Family songs, among others) about the wrecking crew and the sessions musicians back then in general. The Monkees were prominently mentioned in the article as well.

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

That's interesting. I'll see if I can find the article. Thanks.

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

newhavencoliseum, do you know if the Monkees played at all on the soundtrack to Head? Did they play on any of those songs? I'm also curious if any of them played on the albums Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd or The Birds, The Bees & the Monkees.

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

Off the top of my head....On the "Head" soundtrack they all played on the live version of "Circle Sky". On "Pisces, " Mickey plays drums on "Cuddly Toy", Mike plays guitar on generally any song he is lead singer of in "Pisces" or "B, B, &M" Off the top of my head Peter played guitar on his two "Head" songs, as well as piano on "Daydream Believer" on "B, B, &M" . Andrew Sandoval's book, "THE MONKEES" has EVERY studio session for EVERY song with 98% of who played what on each session. It is very very detailed. The book also includes EVERY Monkees concert appearances, as well as all the TV appearances as well. After "Headquarters" The Monkees themselves played less and lesss on each subsequent album.

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

Thanks

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

Are you familiar with a song called Through the Looking Glass? It was on one of their last albums called Instant Replay. Peter Tork wasn't there and it was just Mike, Mickey, and Davey. Do you know if they played at all on that one?

Been meaning to ask you, what is your favorite Monkees song? Mine is Daydream Believer. Daydream Believer is such a happy song. They even played on it too. My other favorites will be found on Headquarters. Mike wrote great songs for them. Pleasant Valley Sunday is also a good one.

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

"Through The Looking Glass" was on Instant Replay. It was also one of the songs that had been previously rejected as inferior for release, so it was actually recorded during the Peter Tork era, although if I recall correctly, I do not believe any of the Monkees actually play any instruments on that release. My favorite Monkees song is "Daily Nightly". "Do I Have To Do This All Over Again?", "Last Train To Clarksville", "Tapioca Tundra", and "Regional Girl" are just a few of my favorites.

[–] mercury4 14 years ago

"Do I Have To Do This All Over Again" was a cool song. I remember that on the Head soundtrack. It was pretty psychedelic. That scene in the movie was cool too. Very 60's psychedelic like. Do you remember the song Can You Dig It in the movie? Do you know if they played on that song?

[–] newhavencoliseum 14 years ago

I am pretty sure no Monkees played on either version of "Can You Dig It?" version one sung by Micky, version two sung by Peter.

[–] Actorsactiondotorg 13 years ago

BEATLES CARTOONS WERE FAKES - AND SILLY BUBBLEGUM CONTENT.

Monkees were better product and better entertainment.

...maybe if the Monkees did as much DOPE AND DRUGS as the Beatles, they would be regarded as sooooo serious and artistic and genius blah blah.

[–] jim_marks25 13 years ago

...maybe if the Monkees did as much DOPE AND DRUGS as the Beatles, they would be regarded as sooooo serious and artistic and genius blah blah.

Dope and Drugs had nothing to do with it. Bottom line is that in most people's eyes The Monkees weren't able to escape the whole "prefab" image. If they would have been four dudes who got together and formed a band in their garage then things probably would have been different.

[–] Actorsactiondotorg 13 years ago

The Beatles arrived with a fab plastic bubble gum kiddie cartoon image themselves.

DRUGS AND POLITICS caused the band to be seen as "artsy fartsy" "serious"

Forming a band in a garage is more credible than a band formed in a studio?

whatever

[–] jim_marks25 13 years ago

The Beatles arrived with a fab plastic bubble gum kiddie cartoon image themselves.

DRUGS AND POLITICS caused the band to be seen as "artsy fartsy" "serious"

I seriously doubt drugs caused them to start writing more grown up and arty songs...

"I was already a stylized songwriter on the first album," he later told Rolling Stone's Jann Wenner. "But to express myself I would write Spaniard in the Works or In His Own Write, the personal stories which were expressive of my personal emotions. I'd have a separate songwriting John Lennon who wrote songs for the sort of meat market, and I didn't consider them -- the lyrics or anything -- to have any depth at all. They were just a joke. Then I started being me about the songs, not writing them objectively, but subjectively." -- John Lennon

Forming a band in a garage is more credible than a band formed in a studio?

Like I said, the general consensus from the public was that The Monkees weren’t a real band. They were four dudes who answered a newspaper ad seeking people for a television show. Is that fair? Maybe, maybe not. If there would have been no Monkees tv show, no controversy about whether or not they play their instruments, and they would have been 4 dudes from the same town who formed a band called the Monkees and hit the big time by paying their dues, then they would have gotten all the credibility that they deserve.

[–] funky-rat 12 years ago

I agree, but Glen Campbell played that wicked guitar riff on Mary Mary. Not that Mike couldn't (I've seen him do it live) but that was Kirschner for you.

[–] Grendel1950 11 years ago

I saw Herman's Hermits on Steel Pier in Atlantic City in 1964, and they all played their own instruments on stage. It wasn't unusual at that time for many bands to bring in session musicians for recordings, and for the "real" band to provide vocals and sometimes backup music. It's been said that Jimmy Paige played on half the records made in England from 1964 - 1970, and although that's an overstatement, it's indicative of the influence studio musicians had. A famous story has Paige playing the solo on the Kinks' "All Day and All of the Night"; Ray Davies always insisted his brother Dave, the band's offical lead guitar, was a wonderful guitar player and bristled at the Paige rumor, but he never denied that Paige played the solo.

[–] dpcole7 8 years ago

And the Beatles, their latter day albums (67~70) are more creepy than inspirational, with a couple exceptions. Probably due to all the drug use, which has been largely well-documented for a number of years now so the claims of never doing any won't be believed.

Didn't The Stones attempt disco in 1978? :)

Music, like all forms of art, is liked initially or can be liked over time - how "it grows on you". Some won't like it, but for art to just say it sucks isn't nice. Then again, I'm guilty of saying the same thing for the last 20 years' worth of manufactured images (who really are stick figures) but if what is produced is liked, then that's what truly matters the most.

[–] Itsamoomoo 14 years ago

Gary Lewis and the Playboys were indeed a real band. They got a job at Disneyland as "Gary and the Playboys" back in the early sixties and were an immediate success at the park as word spread about the band. A couple of things you barked about are true, the facts about their first single and the Ed Sullivan appearance you pointed out. But they were indeed a real band and Gary could indeed sing. I don't see how this makes them fakes.

[–] beatlenut8 13 years ago

The Playboys were never touted as America's answer to The Beatles like The Monkees were. The hype and commercial selling wasnt there anywhere near as much. Having Jerry as his old man helped but I dont think the critics or the general public ever compared them to the beatles

[–] mercury4 13 years ago

Very true. Plus they never played on their records. That wasn't even them singing. So yes, Gary Lewis and the Playboys were fakes. They couldn't hack it. I like some of their songs, but I'm not going to give Gary Lewis or his band any credit for them. Not only did they not play them or sing them, they didn't write them either. Mike Nesmith of the Monkees wrote plenty of songs. Peter even wrote some good ones. Gary Lewis and the Playboys had some good tunes, but they can't even compare to the Monkees and certainly not to the Beatles. Their biggest hit, This Diamond Ring, was good, but not even close to Monkees or Beatles music.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] darrin-02363 8 years ago

Oh come on!! The Monkees may have written some album filler, but they never wrote any of their hits. They had the the Brill Building, Boyce and Hart, Carol King, Neil Diamond, doing all their writing. It wasn't "their" music. Please...do not try to categorize them with Beatles or Stones. I'm amazed that people still try to ligitimize this fake band.

[–] jefgg 12 years ago

Doesn't almost every act lip synch for TV appearances?

Don't many acts use prerecorded backing tracks to augment their sound for concerts?

[–] jefgg 10 years ago

I heard a lot of popular '60s groups were occasionally augmented in the studio by session musicians. Some of these groups were very popular like The Beach Boys and Herman's Hermits. I heard it was done to save money because studio time was expensive.

[–] jefgg 9 years ago

Many music groups use outside musicians on their studio recordings. The Monkees were one of them. I don't have a major issue with it. I just read that "Fast" Eddie Hoh passed away. He played drums on many Monkees recordings. I think Hal Blaine was their primary studio drummer. Who else played on The Monkees recordings?