Yes the purpose of these 2-part Batman episodes is to promote the Green Hornet program. No doubt about it, never stated otherwise. However, a return to their own series with their "wanted" status intact does not render it unworkable. Batman and Robin could have defeated the Green Hornet and Kato, then gone after Col. Gumm, thus allowing the visiting heroes to escape easily. Again the fight ending in a draw was to placate Bruce Lee who destested the idea of losing to anyone, let alone Robin and possibly Van Williams who didn't want to do the Batman episodes to begin with. After all, the Green Hornet and Kato were previously caught and believed to have been turned into giant postage stamps, so they were already humiliated. Getting beaten by Batman and Robin would not have been that much of a stretch.
Please also note of who the writer of these Batman episodes were. Charles Hoffman, the Story Editor of Batman for seasons 2 and 3. He did not write a single episode of the Green Hornet. This is also one of the few 2-parters in which George W. Trendle did *not* proof read the script for (he only read a synopsis as William Dozier knew that Trendle would reject the actual script).
As far as I can tell without going to a whole lot of trouble, the only person who wrote with credit for both shows was Lorenzo Semple, who shares the credit with
Hornet associate producer Jerry Thomas on that series' first two-parter "Beautiful Dreamer." James Van Hise, in his 1988 book on the program, states that the basic premise is more like something you'd find on
Batman, and I think he's more right than he realized. My theory is that Semple wrote it for the other show, which rejected it as not outrageous enough in one way or another; somebody (probably mutual executive producer William Dozier) tossed it next door where Thomas converted it into a
Hornet script. In
Starlog #135, October 1988, interviewed by Will Murray, Van Williams claimed that on a visit to the
Hornet set, Trendle said he thought that show should be more like
Batman. So why would it be that "Dozier knew that Trendle would reject the actual script" of the two-part crossover? Granted, in the same piece Williams also claims of his show, "We were winning our time slot," patently untrue, and (apparently) started the story that the series was cancelled by Dozier, not the ABC network, because the latter refused to expand it to a one-hour slot to allow more complex plotlines; given the actual numbers ("often ranking in the bottom 20 of the Nielsen ratings" according to
Cinefantastique magazine in its February 1994 special Bat-issue, p. 43, which jibes with its being up against CBS' mega-hit
The Wild Wild West), that can't be true either. So maybe the actor's Trendle claim is equally B.S.
Sure, there are different kinds of suffering and sure, their reputations are at stake here but I still think that this is the one and only time that the Green Hornet is concerned for some else's physical well-being other than Frank's, Mike's, Casey's, Kato's and of course his own.
Britt once each even punched out Mike and Frank in his own interests ("Eat, Drink and Be Dead" and "Hornet, Save Thyself" respectively), but never mind that. Like I said, Reid's statements to Kato just before they leave their hotel suite as the Hornet and his man are conclusive otherwise, and if I still had my video, I'd
quote them to you. You can "still think" it's only about "physical well-being" if you want to, but you're wrong: That's just not what was said.
An out-and-out defeat of the Hornet & Kato by Batman & Robin would not properly promote the other series, would not lead viewers to it, even if they were shown to recover and slip away while the Caped Crusaders were finishing up Gumm and his men, and therefore could not have been scripted that way. Period! In the last couple of months, somebody linked in someone else's Green Hornet web site on one of these IMDb/Green Hornet boards relevant to a discussion of the Black Beauty cars made for the series. It led me to another page of the same site about this, where he quoted Burt Ward telling a version of the event much more in line with this logic in a TV appearance c. 1980, but I can't find it right now. He claimed that he and Lee set up a practical joke and Lee was pretending to be mad that he wasn't being allowed to win his fight with Robin. That site's maker disputed it on the grounds that it did not match most everybody else's accounts, but I say Ward was the only one with the balls to get close to the truth publicly. Well, not the only one. In that previously cited
Cinefantastique issue, Ward's stunt double Victor Paul was quoted (same page, too), "We had quite an incident, because Batman and Robin did not want to lose the fight. Bruce Lee didn't want to lose [either]." (Brackets in the original). According to this account, it's obvious that the script left it up to the director how to end the fight, and both sides were making their incompatible preferences known to him, undoubtedly in advance of actually filming it. That's two first-hand accounts more in line with the logical requirements of the over all situation than the standard story. You are going to have to do much better than just standing by the usual story to shake any of that. Others have accepted it. See
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059968/board/nest/152346397?d=174689370#1 74689370, for example.
The GREEN HORNET Strikes Again!
reply
share
srb-3
13 years ago
"As far as I can tell without going to a whole lot of trouble, the only person who wrote with credit for both shows was Lorenzo Semple, who shares the credit with Hornet associate producer Jerry Thomas on that series' first two-parter "Beautiful Dreamer." James Van Hise, in his 1988 book on the program, states that the basic premise is more like something you'd find on Batman, and I think he's more right than he realized. My theory is that Semple wrote it for the other show, which rejected it as not outrageous enough in one way or another; somebody (probably mutual executive producer William Dozier) tossed it next door where Thomas converted it into a Hornet script. In Starlog #135, October 1988, interviewed by Will Murray, Van Williams claimed that on a visit to the Hornet set, Trendle said he thought that show should be more like Batman. So why would it be that "Dozier knew that Trendle would reject the actual script" of the two-part crossover? Granted, in the same piece Williams also claims of his show, "We were winning our time slot," patently untrue, and (apparently) started the story that the series was cancelled by Dozier, not the ABC network, because the latter refused to expand it to a one-hour slot to allow more complex plotlines; given the actual numbers ("often ranking in the bottom 20 of the Nielsen ratings" according to Cinefantastique magazine in its February 1994 special Bat-issue, p. 43, which jibes with its being up against CBS' mega-hit The Wild Wild West), that can't be true either. So maybe the actor's Trendle claim is equally B.S."
Not so. Yes Lorenzo Semple jr. did write the original pilot which be eventually became Beautiful Dreamer parts 1 & 2. Notice I said *eventually*. George W. Trendle rejected it in its original form. William Dozier fired Semple because Semple and Trendel did not see eye-to-eye at all. So Dozier hired Richard Bluel as Producer, who in turn hired Jerry Thomas as the Story Editor for the Green Hornet. So the original draft of Beautiful Dreamer was Semple 's contribution. Eventually Jerry Thomas had Beautiful Dreamer parts 1 & 2 re-written by Ken Petus, which Trendel *did* approve of. Again the 2-parter on Batman (A Piece of the Action/Batman's Satisfaction) was written by Batman Story Editor for seasons 2 and 3 Charles Hoffman. I have heard that Trendel did *not* see the Green Hornet like Batman while Semple certainly did, which again, is why Dozier fired Semple. By the time of this Batman 2-parter being developed Dozier knew Trendel very well and they were *not* getting along with Trendel approving every script (Dozier would later call this as "censorship" on Trendel's part) that' how he knew that Trendel would not approve the script as he was dead against making the Green Hornet like Batman in anyway shape or form. Initially Dozier agreed but after the Green Hornet was canceled, Dozier did admit that the Green Hornet should have been more like Batman as Batman was going to have a 3rd season. Make that what you will.
"Britt once each even punched out Mike and Frank in his own interests ("Eat, Drink and Be Dead" and "Hornet, Save Thyself" respectively), but never mind that. Like I said, Reid's statements to Kato just before they leave their hotel suite as the Hornet and his man are conclusive otherwise, and if I still had my video, I'd quote them to you. You can "still think" it's only about "physical well-being" if you want to, but you're wrong: That's just not what was said. "
I have seen that clip. Very recently as a matter of fact; so there is no need to repost it. It's about physical combat and suffering. Kato's quote: "Gung Fu is Gung Fu. It's not child's play." I certainly very telling to me.
"An out-and-out defeat of the Hornet & Kato by Batman & Robin would not properly promote the other series, would not lead viewers to it, even if they were shown to recover and slip away while the Caped Crusaders were finishing up Gumm and his men, and therefore could not have been scripted that way. Period! In the last couple of months, somebody linked in someone else's Green Hornet web site on one of these IMDb/Green Hornet boards relevant to a discussion of the Black Beauty cars made for the series. It led me to another page of the same site about this, where he quoted Burt Ward telling a version of the event much more in line with this logic in a TV appearance c. 1980, but I can't find it right now. He claimed that he and Lee set up a practical joke and Lee was pretending to be mad that he wasn't being allowed to win his fight with Robin. That site's maker disputed it on the grounds that it did not match most everybody else's accounts, but I say Ward was the only one with the balls to get close to the truth publicly. Well, not the only one. In that previously cited Cinefantastique issue, Ward's stunt double Victor Paul was quoted (same page, too), "We had quite an incident, because Batman and Robin did not want to lose the fight. Bruce Lee didn't want to lose [either]." (Brackets in the original). According to this account, it's obvious that the script left it up to the director how to end the fight, and both sides were making their incompatible preferences known to him, undoubtedly in advance of actually filming it. That's two first-hand accounts more in line with the logical requirements of the over all situation than the standard story. You are going to have to do much better than just standing by the usual story to shake any of that. Others have accepted it. See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059968/board/nest/152346397?d=174689370#1 74689370, for example."
Ah yes, the practical joke that Bruce Lee played on Burt Ward the day of the shooting of that scene. Why did Bruce Lee do that ? Because Burt Ward read the script and said something like, "Oh this is great. I get to beat up the waiter." Since the crew loved Bruce Lee and hated Burt Ward this got back to Bruce Lee very quickly as you can imagine. The rest you know, Bruce Lee successfully pulled his practical joke on Burt Ward, and the director rewrote the scene which resulted in a draw.
reply
share
tbrittreid
13 years ago
Not so. Yes Lorenzo Semple jr. did write the original pilot which be eventually became Beautiful Dreamer parts 1 & 2. Notice I said *eventually*. George W. Trendle rejected it in its original form. William Dozier fired Semple because Semple and Trendel did not see eye-to-eye at all. So Dozier hired Richard Bluel as Producer, who in turn hired Jerry Thomas as the Story Editor for the Green Hornet. So the original draft of Beautiful Dreamer was Semple 's contribution. Eventually Jerry Thomas had Beautiful Dreamer parts 1 & 2 re-written by Ken Petus, which Trendel *did* approve of. Again the 2-parter on Batman (A Piece of the Action/Batman's Satisfaction) was written by Batman Story Editor for seasons 2 and 3 Charles Hoffman. I have heard that Trendel did *not* see the Green Hornet like Batman while Semple certainly did, which again, is why Dozier fired Semple. By the time of this Batman 2-parter being developed Dozier knew Trendel very well and they were *not* getting along with Trendel approving every script (Dozier would later call this as "censorship" on Trendel's part) that' how he knew that Trendel would not approve the script as he was dead against making the Green Hornet like Batman in anyway shape or form. Initially Dozier agreed but after the Green Hornet was canceled, Dozier did admit that the Green Hornet should have been more like Batman as Batman was going to have a 3rd season. Make that what you will.
"Dozier fired Semple" as what? Writer of "Beautiful Dreamer"? That unanswered question aside (as well as my
mea culpa that it was indeed frequent
GH contributor Pettus rather than AP Thomas who shares the writing credit there), what's your source for any of that? I specified mine for Trendle's alleged position, admittedly challenging its credibility on other points. Most everybody agrees that "Programmed for Death," aired third by ABC, was the pilot, for various reasons, most notably:
1. Williams and Lee wear angularly stylized masks seen nowhere else in the series, other than some of the stills in the standard opening titles sequence, stock shots--such as the garage sequence, by definition part of the pilot shoot--and on Lee in "Crime Wave"; ABC aired that one fourth, but Lee's mask indicates that it was filmed second, the first in the regular series production schedule.
2. "Programmed..." comes up first in the syndicated rerun package. When those are not in first-run airing sequence, they are in production (which is not necessarily the same as filming) order. I wish I could remember where "Crime Wave" came in, but it must have been second.
3. The series' day-for-night work is at its best in "Programmed..." and takes just a few episodes into the weekly schedule to become quite unconvincing.
Again, what's your source?
I have seen that clip. Very recently as a matter of fact; so there is no need to repost it. It's about physical combat and suffering. Kato's quote: "Gung Fu is Gung Fu. It's not child's play." I certainly very telling to me.
Well, that's pretty open to interpretation, while Britt's words are not. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow and get the exact quotes of
him. BTW, there are two such scenes, one in each "part" and obviously filmed back-to-back.
Ah yes, the practical joke that Bruce Lee played on Burt Ward the day of the shooting of that scene. Why did Bruce Lee do that ? Because Burt Ward read the script and said something like, "Oh this is great. I get to beat up the waiter." Since the crew loved Bruce Lee and hated Burt Ward this got back to Bruce Lee very quickly as you can imagine. The rest you know, Bruce Lee successfully pulled his practical joke on Burt Ward, and the director rewrote the scene which resulted in a draw.
Again, Ward's claimed joke was cooked up by him and Lee
together, not what you describe; again, I wish I could find that link. I wonder if the post--or perhaps the entire thread--has been taken down? And all my facts and consequential--and inescapable--logical deductions therefrom making a defeat scripted at any point impossible--as well as it being contradicted by Ward's stuntman--remains not dealt with by you. You have, in fact, made a number of "factual" assertions which are completely unprecedented in all my readings on both series, as well as incompatible with much of it and/or internal evidence of the episodes themselves; if that's the best you can do, give it up.
The GREEN HORNET Strikes Again!
reply
share