MovieChat Forums > Major Dundee (1965) Discussion > Major Dundee and Rio Grande

Major Dundee and Rio Grande

posted 19 years ago by smith93
3 replies | jump to latest

Anyone notice the similarities between Rio Grande and Major Dundee? In alot of ways, Peckinpah basically re-worked Fords film using plot elements that were very similar but to a very different effect. For example: The civil war background (although in the past in the former movie and the present in the latter) with the different ideas of who one's loyalty is owed to as understood by the Norther character versus the Southern character. There is also the mission to illegally cross into mexico to rescue children taken prisoner by raiding Apaches, which can be read in light of contemporary (to each film) events. Look at how a late 40's early 50's view of such a military action contrasts with a vietnam era view. And in each movie many of the men carrying out the mission would not have been the first choices to do so: green recruits or mercenaries and traitors. There are even significant scenes of the troops singing in both films.

I encourage anyone who likes one or the other of these films to watch both side by side and give some feedback about what you though. Pretty interesting, eh?

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 19 years ago

I think that's an interesting point, however I think that the Vietnam angle is very much overplayed by critics and fans of the film. I can certainly see "Dundee"'s plot as being similar to Vietnam, as I can also see it being similar to Iran-Contra or the current War on Terror. But, the movie was made from 1963-4, and released in 1965. The Vietnam War was just in the process of escalating, and did not become particularly unpopular until 1968, after the Tet Offensive. If the movie had been made two or three years later I might agree with you, and since Peckinpah was adamantly anti-war you would have a very strong case, but the fact is, Peckinpah was just very much fascinated by the storyline, and any political undertones were mostly likely not deliberate.

"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia"

[–] smith93 19 years ago

Peckinpah was just very much fascinated by the storyline, and any political undertones were mostly likely not deliberate.

I'm not really saying that they were. But as you say, Peckinpah was anti-war, and it's not that protests didn't start until the Tet Offesive, they just didn't become embraced by as wide or as diverse a group of people. I just think that the kind of attitude about Vietnam that Peckinpah might have had stewing in the back of his mind probably contributed to the way he portrays the expedition in Major Dundee (and I would speculate similar things about Ford when he made Rio Grande). But I don't think that he set out to make a movie about Vietnam. I think that the general assesment of Dundee as his first attempt to make The Wild Bunch is probably more accurate.

Also, I think that if Vietnam really was an influence on Major Dundee, then the end of the film might make more sense for a movie made earlier in the conflict, which it was. It's unclear how Dundee is going to be judged for his initiative by the people back home. Maybe he'll be commended for whipping out the Apache raiders, maybe he'll be courtmarshaled for losing the lives of so many of his men, damaging international relations, and exceeding his orders. This certainly seems like it could be a mid-60's take on Vietnam. Contrast this to the post WWII attitude of Rio Grand, where everybody wins congressional medals of honor and lives happily ever after.

[–] Hancock_the_Superb 19 years ago

I think it was DVD Savant who compared Dundee to a 19th Century Oliver North. That seems pretty darned accurate to me.

"Rio Grande" WAS cited by John Wayne as sort of an allegory for the Korean War. I guess I can see that.

A scenario I have thought up for a Dundee remake would be it taking place in Afghanistan, with Dundee as a US Spec Ops commander, the Confederates as al-Qaeda/Taliban POWs, and the Pakistanis playing the part of the French. I'm not saying it should be remade, but I think that idea is interesting at least in theory.

"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia"