MovieChat Forums > Major Dundee (1965) Discussion > question on rifles

question on rifles

posted 20 years ago by adamwarlock
10 replies | jump to latest

Aren't the rifles seen in MD (Winchesters or some kind of repeating fire rifles) totally out of place in 1864? I always saw that Civil War rifles were still muskets that had to be reloaded after every shot (although somewhat quicker than Revolutionary War muskets). Repeater rifles came around in the 1870s or 1880s. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly makes a similar mistake with the Civil War happening along side the Man with No Name who's definitely in the 1880s (also has the major battles happening by the Mexican border).

[–] PSJazzFan 20 years ago

There were a number of breech loading rifles and carbines that were used in the war that increased the number of rounds that could be fired per minute, from 3 rounds of a muzzle loading musket to the dozen or more of the breech loaders.

There was also repeaters, like the Henry, that were issued as early as 1863, mostly to cavalry units. These had a cylindrical magazine tube under the barrel and could hold up to 14 rounds.

[–] smith93 20 years ago

The rifles in the movie are Henry rifles. This is explicitly stated; at least in the restored version.

[–] blackknight40 18 years ago

more correctly: "That damned Yankee Rifle that could be loaded on Sunday and fired all week."

[–] ManAboutTown 20 years ago

The two most popular Civil War shoulder arms were the Springfield and Enfield, both rifles. The repeater was invented right before the war started, the breech rifle back in the 1700s.

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Pycal 20 years ago

Yeah they had repeating rifles in the Civil war, however they were not standard issue, soldiers had to buy them themselves. The Confederates called the Henry "That damned Yankee rifle".

"Stupid friends are dangerous"

[–] foster1234 18 years ago

The Henry rifle mentioned above was available after 1862, and had to be purchased by the person or the unit, some volunteer units were funded by thier respective states and they provided the funds. It fired an underpowered 44 cal. rimfire cartridge. How they stole these from a US Depot is beyond me and the movie. A More realistic weapon to be had by this time in the war was the Spencer Carbine which fired a 54 Caliber rimfire round , 7 rounds stored in the stock and loaded through a lever action. It was the standard weapon of the cavalry through the indian wars.

The Negro soldiers are armed with Springfield rifles.

The French cavalry used what looked like pinfire revolvers

The indians used whatever they could get

I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney, than driving with Ted Kennedy

[–] lambrettaguy200 18 years ago

The Henry was issued in both cavalry carbine and infantry rifle version in the later Civil War (but couldn't take a bayonet I believe). The Henry can be distinguished from the Winchester by the Winchester having a wooden forestock and the Henry being bare metal. After the war, Henrys' figured in the successful Wagon Box Fight and also in not nearly enough numbers in the Fetterman massacre (following that action, troops found loads of shellcases near the few dead civilians who were armed with the Henry and evidence of many dead Indians. The regulars who died all had single shot weapons and there weren't nearly so many Indian bodies around. Plenty arrows in and around the dead soldiers though !)

Here's tae us ! - Wha's like us ? Gae few an'they're a'deid !

[–] mamacaraig 17 years ago

The rifles in the movie are supposed to be Henrys and the narration explicitly says they are Henrys.

Of course, when you take a close look at them, it is obvious that they are just Winchesters with the forestock removed. This was a common practice in the old Westerns before replica firearms became commonplace.

[–] Captain_Augustus_McCrae 16 years ago

mamacaraig is right on the money. It might have made better sense to have Civil War soldiers with repeaters use Spencers, but you can't phoney up a Spencer by taking the forstock off a Winchester '92, and you CAN dummy up a Henry in that way. This was done so that the prop man could issue centerfire 5-in-one blanks that would cycle through a Henry-looking Winchester '92. A real Henry (as well as a Spencer) fired rimfire rounds not readily available and not reloadable. So the use of (simulated) Henry rifles in this film (and MANY other Westerns) is an attempt to at least LOOK historically correct, while still using cheap, readily available ammunition. This only matters if you are knowledgeable about firearms, and a real stickler for accuracy.