Implausibility


Why didn't Grantby just kill Palmer instead of bothering with all that psychedelic 'induction of psychoneurosis' stuff (in my opinion the weakest part of the film)?

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Well, in my opinion it seemed that Grantby was more obsessed with proving his Ipcress method was effective. When Palmer was initially resisting the technique Grantby was adament it would succeed. I think killing Palmer would have felt like defeat for Grantby.


Phil


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But he'd already proven its success with the scientist.

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Yes, but the doctor is not a trained MI6 (The Circus) spy. Harry Palmer was a pretty smart guy in this.

I LOVED the books:)

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Grantby got rid of Housemartin pretty quick though: presumably by using a quick acting poison. I can't imagine the chief of staff having been brainwashed in the same way as the scientists, but surely a loyal henchman would have kept his mouth shut.

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Remember he also mentioned the Gestapo's violent methods of extracting info from and or breaking the will of prisoners was crude, or something to that effect..

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I think the logical reason is that Grantby thought he has complete control over a talented spy with connection to Ross without Ross' suspicions as had with Dalby. Hence they (Grantby and Co.) can do whatever they want with the hands of Palmer.

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Grantby wanted Ross out the way so what better than to have Harry Palmer kill him.It would have worked if Palmer hadn`t remembered the nail.Dalby was probably after Ross`s job as well so he would gain & be in an even stronger position to help with Grantby`s next scheme should he choose to.

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Yeah, they wanted Palmer to kill Ross.

Here's how it works (I think):

Ross suspected Dalby of beinga double agent, so he moved Palmer to Dalby's team to flush him out. After Palmer located Grantby and also killed that CIA agent with the glasses, both Dalby and Grantby realised that Palmer was either too good or onto their case. But they didn't kill him because they realised that they could frame Palmer for all their dirty work considering also that he didn't have a very good character report from Dalby. So they killed both the other CIA agent who was following Palmer and Jock (because he'd figured out the Ipcress file) and I guess knowing that Jock had told Palmer they could kill him and then make it look like Palmer had done it. With that in mind, theyt ook him in to programme him so he would then kill Ross, then Palmer would get fitted up for all the killings, thereby leaving Dalby without a scratch.

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I thought they shot Jock by accident because he was driving Harry's car and they thought he was Harry. (Classic film moment btw). So as someone says, why then try to influence Harry by the psychedelic torture?

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I think that it's a movie and a book and it really wouldn't work as a successfull literary or film franchise if Palmer died. However, I certainly agree with whoever said that the machine had worked on the scientists but to have Palmer, an unwilling MI6 agent, was a great way to test the capabilities and limits of the machine.

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I really could not find a movie even near ipcress quality. I watched a number of so-called similar movies, of course not Bond-likes, I come to conclusion it probably is the best spy movie. What do you think?

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I haven`t seen Billion Dollar Brain but "Funeral In Berlin" is pretty close to the original in terms of quality.Similar films which might be worth tracking down are "Quiller Memorandum" & "The Spy Who Came In From The Cold".

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The Quiller Memorandum was a good film with an interesting concept but I just don't think George Segal works well in this film, I feel its kinda let down by him. Interesting thing though, the film has a screenplay by Harold Pinter.

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...I just don't think George Segal works well in [The Quiller Memorandum], I feel its kinda let down by him.


Exactly!

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In the sixties we were fascinated by theories about "brainwashing in Red China" etc. In the subsequent decades we discovered that there wasn't much need for the science fiction approach when old fashioned genocide and brutality turned out to be so effective.

It was unthinkable in 1965 that human life would actually become cheaper in subsequent decades and that torture and interogation would become more brutal. It's for this reason that a remake of Ipcress File would now be laughable. You might Google the methodology of Warrant Officer Jeffrey Benzien for example. Or review some of the photographs from Abu Ghraib.

The only bad thing about The Ipcress File is the cliche-ridden plot which doesn't withstand much scrutiny. Missing scientists and multimedia brainwashing techniqes were regular themes throughout the sixties in movies and in tv series such as The Avengers, The Man from U.N.C.L.E., A Clockwork Orange, The Manchurian Candidate, The Prisoner.

Thirty years later, the IPCRESS torture warehouse might have become a popular techno venue with kids lining up to get injected with psychotropic drugs and have their senses assaulted by industrial noises and pulsating projected images similar to the ones that seemed to upset Harry Palmer so much.

Funeral in Berlin is much more plausible.

http://byronik.com

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In the sixties we were fascinated by theories about "brainwashing in Red China" etc. In the subsequent decades we discovered that there wasn't much need for the science fiction approach when old fashioned genocide and brutality turned out to be so effective.

It was unthinkable in 1965 that human life would actually become cheaper in subsequent decades and that torture and interogation would become more brutal. It's for this reason that a remake of Ipcress File would now be laughable. You might Google the methodology of Warrant Officer Jeffrey Benzien for example. Or review some of the photographs from Abu Ghraib.

The only bad thing about The Ipcress File is the cliche-ridden plot which doesn't withstand much scrutiny. Missing scientists and multimedia brainwashing techniqes were regular themes throughout the sixties in movies and in tv series such as The Avengers, The Man from U.N.C.L.E., A Clockwork Orange, The Manchurian Candidate, The Prisoner.

Thirty years later, the IPCRESS torture warehouse might have become a popular techno venue with kids lining up to get injected with psychotropic drugs and have their senses assaulted by industrial noises and pulsating projected images similar to the ones that seemed to upset Harry Palmer so much.

Funeral in Berlin is much more plausible.


I don't know, I think what torment Palmer went through at the hands of that Albanian spy cell in that abandoned London factory/warehouse was chillingly similar to what inmates at Guantanamo Bay go through, albeit a bit more fantastical (with loads of sleep deprivation and sensory overload). Gitmo was set up with orders from the top and was a specialised facility for breaking down terror suspects. Abu Ghraib was a mismanaged mess and overloaded with inmates, with bored and sadistic guards not reigned in by their superiors.

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"Why don't you just kill him?"

"I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death."

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"Why don't you just kill him?"

"I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death."
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Agreed (minus the sarcasm. As alluded to the reason is the same reason that nobody just kills Bond with a gun to the head, if they did what bad guys would really do in life, the story would be over. Sadly, there are not too many plots that provide suspense and drama, nor too many movies that are exciting while still being highly plausible. The Bourne Identity comes to mind.

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It became clear to my why they were not killing him when in the chair, Grantby kept repeating to Harry "you killed the CIA agents," and other false and dastardly things they wanted to plant in Harry's mind to set him up for the final kill: Ross.

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