Judas suicide
Does anyone know why director Stevens had Judas fall into the temple fire rather than hang himself?
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Even more confusing is that, in the director's cut, Stevens had Judas enter the temple carrying a hangman's noose and he slipped it around his neck just before jumping into the flames. Wonder what he was trying to go with there?
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I never knew that the director's cut showed him with a noose. I think Stevens was trying to find a logical way to connect two descriptions of Judas' death in the Bible. One part of the Bible states that Judas hanged himself, but another portion states that his bowels spilled out. Some naysayers look at this as contradiction, but I think it's very possible that Judas hanged himself and perhaps either the rope snapped or what it was tied to broke, causing Judas to fall from a great height and cause his body to explode and release his bowels. It seems Stevens was trying to show that on film, though the way johnlenonomusic describes it makes it sound very odd (did Judas even bother to tie his noose to anything overhead before jumping into the flames?)
By the way, I'd like to know more about what was in the director's that that failed to show up in the final film. Got any tidbits to share?
There are several versions of Judas's death - an early vhs version (as well as a NBC broadcast) showed him hanging himself - in all the times I saw it in theaters - in at least 3 different cuts - 221m., 195m., 141m. - Judas threw himself into the the Temple fire. BTW I dont think there ever was a 260 minute version. Hollywood Reporter from 2/15/65 listed a 224 minute running time which I think was the version I saw in a roadshow engagement in Chicago.
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Sorry - this is not a stupid film but you definitely are stupid to make such an assinine remark. Of course, you seem to specialize in such rants. Go play somewhere else.
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judas didnt die by hanging himself, this is a common misunderstanding.
The Greek word translated "hanged himself" is the word apanchomai which is used in Greek literature to mean choking or squeezing one's self as with great emotion or grief. In English we have a similar expression when we say that someone is "all choked up." We do not mean that they have died. We mean that they are overcome with emotion.
I'm aware of the two conflicting accounts of Judas' death in the Bible (PASSION stitches the two together, sort of, as did JC Superstar, by having the branch break), but I personally have always favored the version which has him mysteriously dashed on a rock.
But getting back to GSET, let me also raise the continuity error present in several of the versions mentioned.
I cannot tell you how many times I've seen prints on TV which clearly show Judas dropping into the flames and THEN throwing the coins. This version has been shown many times (I have it on VHS from TV).
Anyone else aware of this?
"If you don't know the answer -change the question."
stop being stupid. all of u.
share"judas didnt die by hanging himself, this is a common misunderstanding.
The Greek word translated "hanged himself" is the word apanchomai which is used in Greek literature to mean choking or squeezing one's self as with great emotion or grief. In English we have a similar expression when we say that someone is "all choked up." We do not mean that they have died. We mean that they are overcome with emotion."
duneheritage, can I ask u something? were u there when he committed suicide? did u see him? wow!
Where's Jessica Fletcher when we need her most?
Was it suicide ---or murder? SHE'd soon unscramble this case.
Oh...wait a minute...she WAS there...playing Pilate's wife...
The mystery deepens...
"If you don't know the answer -change the question."
@ what's-his-face who asked if whoever was actually there: It's called a study Bible, with explanations of the original Greek words, lame-ass. Even I know that: I'm an ordained minister. I just don't do much with the title. If Judas WAS all choked up, that explains the two mysterious deaths and leaves one option: he fell or was pushed and dashed his guts out on a sharp rock.
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I joined IMDB and all I got was this lame-ass signature.
Nothing personal, but just from a public relations standpoint I would have serious reservations about entrusting my spiritual well-being to a minister of the Word who freely uses such terms as "lame-ass" in a public forum.
"If you don't know the answer -change the question."
If you have the chance to read any literature dealing with the Dead Sea Scrolls, there is your answer. It states that Judas was pushed to his death, that is why his bowels burst. It states that fact in detail. It also alludes that some of the disciples may have been involved in pushing Judas to his death, because he betrayed the Master.
shareThere's a mystery writer named Fletcher
Whose friends all go out on a stretcher
She'll pry and she'll poke
"Ah! 'tis MURDER," she wrote.
-But sooner or later, they'll catch her!
"If you don't know the answer -change the question."
Oh, so Judas was just "thrilled" by what he has done? And then... he just went home and grew old? Funny the Gospels don't say anything more about him again. Perhaps he went for a road trip with Barrabas.
shareThe way I heard it was that the production code did not allow a film to show an on screen hanging, or even worse, a suicide by hanging. (If memory serves, this would be in place until IN COLD BLOOD.) You had to switch to that old cliche with the feet suddenly falling into the frame...Stevens felt that would lack any impact. The story goes that they asked in advance if this would be allowed for the movie, but were told it would be a no go.
From there, you have Stevens coming up with the visual imagery that basically says;"I'm going straight to hell for what I have done."
i thinks it's one of the better moments of the film.
The deleted scene that made it to the 2 DVD set was a half hearted attempt to correct things for off shore watchers...
Consider this... Judas hung himself with a noose and the tree was possibly next to a cliff and when the earthquake that also was happening, caused the tree to split and it caused his body to fall down the cliff and landed on the rocks that caused his guts to pour out...
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Ron G. from Sunny (& Hot!) Orlando, Florida
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A prophecy doesn't, imo, "pre-ordain". It "predicts". You're offering us "corelation" and treating it as "causation". Corelation and causation are entirely different concepts.
In much the same vein, we can't really "know" if Judas was a villain or a necessary instrument or both except subjectively. If he "knew" his act was pre-ordained by God (and, therefore, "predicted" by the prophets) -- and he probably didn't, imo -- he was a "good guy" after all. . . A question Christians have been asking, and answering differently, for centuries.
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I'm not a Biblical scholar either.
I can't agree the distinction is "too fine". Many issues today -- spiritual, political, economic, social, etc. are too often resolved after only the corelation is established and treated as being the same as causation -- without in-depth analysis. The resultant action can be, and often is, disasterous. But . . . we won't go into all that here.
I agree with the first half of the "meat" paragraph (the "conduit") but not the second: I don't think the concept of prophesy "enforces" the view that certain "characters" are "merely 'unconscious' pawns". This would be true if the religion in question adhered to a tenet of predestination, which of course, neither Judaism nor Christianity does. My understanding of prophesy (very limited) is that prophesies are "conditional". Ie., "if this ... then that". Given that free-will is an intrinsic part of both religions, the result of an exercise of same either endorses or over-rules the particulars of the prophesy and, in the same way, the credentials of the prophet. In other words, the free-will of the participants in the event determine the truth of the prophesy -- not the other way around, as in predestination. To wit, had the "consciences" of men (under free will) contradicted the "desires" of men "before" the crucifixion, the "Sacrificial Lamb" would not have been necessary, nor would the O.T. prophesies that foretold His coming.
Btw, I don't believe prophesies are teaching tools (convincing Jews ..., or to create "perceptions" of fact), except in some cases ex-post facto, as much as they are signs or warnings of things to come (pleasant and unpleasant) "conditional" to the exercise of free-will.
Thanks and Best
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Thank you much. Usually, I'm told my comments give people INdigestion.
Best, as always