MovieChat Forums > Hogan's Heroes (1965) Discussion > one problem with HH

one problem with HH

posted 12 years ago by fredgarv79
22 replies | jump to latest

I love this show but the problem with it and this may have already been posted before here I"m sure is the simple fact that it takes place in germany, with germans and they have to all speak english. now I don't have a problem with the historical accuracy of this since it's a comedy after all, a silly comedy. but when you have some actors doing a very good quality german accent, and others doing an atrocious, laughable german accent. you have a problem. I can see the casting director asking the many, many actors if they can do a german accent. since there were so many small parts, tons of them, it was very hit or miss. some actors playing only a small part that lasted say 5 lines, were brilliant at it and were very effective. others including some fairly famous character actors, who had lots of lines, were terrible at it. so bad that it almost could ruin the whole episode. they could never do this today.this show.

i'ts fun seeing how some actors really looked the part, really pulled it off, a very nasty SS officer say. then others would just totally botch it and it sounded about as german as a chinese guy trying to do a german accent.

can you imagine, the actor gets a call, "hey can you come audition for such and such part in HH?" sure! then he gets the part, and goes home and dresses up in his black gestapo uniform, with all the regalia, or his luftwaffe generals uniform(which were pretty darn accurately done, pretty darn realistic) so they actor goes home in front of the mirror in his uniform practicing over and over a nasty german SS guy

over the course of 6 years in hollywood, there must have been a lot of men in funny uniforms in front of mirrors practicing "heil hitler!" and doing a bad german accent as their wives walked in on them and wondered what the hell?

[–] nikobelic999 12 years ago

IT WAS IN THE 60'S! Deal with it! Not everything then was as edited and perfected as it is now. It was comedy not a documentary on Nazis, so no, they are not going to be cruel, smart, and cunning.

If you do not like it, or have a problem with it... well guess what? DO NOT WATCH IT!

[–] fredgarv79 12 years ago

hey, nikobelic999, you need to take a chill pill and relax a little, no need to get all in a huff. I probably shouldn't have said it was a "big problem" since it clearly isn't but for me anyway, hearing some top notch character actor doing a horrible german accent sort of ruined the effect of the thing. I know it's not supposed to be a documentary on nazi's but still if they go to all the trouble to get the uniforms accurate and the cars and the sets etc then some guy does this german accent that is absolutely ridiculous to the point of being laughable in of itself, then Id say that's a slight problem, not a big one though. I still love the show as I said in my post, bad accents and all. I"m sitting here watching it now(since it's on every single night two times a night)

[–] jadedbaby 8 years ago

I hear you. It's kind of like hearing a denizen of Mayberry talking in a Brooklyn Accent. (something that bothered me as a kid). But yeah I don't think they were going for historical accuracy.

[–] Prof_Lostiswitz 12 years ago

They chose actors for comic proficiency, not language skills - as it should be.

[–] CoffeeRules 12 years ago

fredgarv79: I love this show but the problem with it and this may have already been posted before here I"m sure is the simple fact that it takes place in germany, with germans and they have to all speak english.

This never bothered me. I saw it as a plot device to prevent half the show from being subtitled. Others may have mentioned it on these boards. Kind of how some movies (e.g., "The Hunt For Red October") did it. I just assumed every time someone was speaking English with a German accent (bad or good), they were really speaking German.

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[–] deforest-1 11 years ago

You get the same thing on the original "Mission Impossible" series, which started in 1966. The thing is the director would have asked Central Casting, "Do you have people who can give the impression or intonation of a Mittel Europa, Eastern European, Balkans, Latin American... accent?" depending on roughly what geographical region the particular episode was set. Most viewers just want the idea of a foreigner in front of them to make the viewing more exotic and interesting -- and then they get to decide who's an enemy of the state and who isn't. And besides, Who's to say what a 'correct' German accent is? Is a Viennese or a Swiss German accent any the less for not being High German coming out of a Hamburger?

[–] fredgarv79 11 years ago

your missing my point, I'm not worried about a slightly off accent that is viennese or swiss, I'm talking about an american actor who previously was on a game show last week or something, trying to do a german accent and making it sound about as silly as a 10 year old trying to imitate a german. I mean really bad. The actor who played general burkhalter, was hungarian, but he did a marvelous job. he nailed it. then you had some fairly famous character actor come on, not part of the regular cast, who had to speak with an accent, and it was often times not good. but what do you do? like someone here said, they were hired for their comedy acting. if they hired only people who could do good accents, then they would be short on good actors who could do comedy.

Imagine if you had a show today, a sitcom placed in New York, about an italian family who owned a pizza joint who just immigrated from Italy and they had only americans from say Iowa or something playing Italians doing a really bad silly Italian accent. It just wouldn't work. But back in 1966 nobody really cared much

[–] Tjanssen411 11 years ago

is that 'what if' any worse than the What was of Happy Days

-- a show set in 1950s Wisconsin
-- Filmed in 1970s California
-- who's Break out character was an 'Italian Greaser'
-- played by New York Jew

or it's spin offs Laverne & Shirley and Mork & Mindy which were essentially set in the 70s... or Penny Marshall's 'New Yawk' accent from a native Wisconsinite

[–] trollomatic 11 years ago

<<<or it's spin offs Laverne & Shirley and Mork & Mindy which were essentially set in the 70s...

actually, Laverne & Shirley were also set in the 1950's.

Only Mork & Mindy was set in the 1970's.

Unless you count the failed series, which was either "Blansky's Beauties" or "Who's Watching the Kids?"

Joannie Loves Chachi was also set in the 1950's. Although the way they did it didn't seem like it.

[–] fredgarv79 11 years ago

I thought the first season of happy days they did a VERY good job of recreating the 50's. it was realistic. fonzie wasn't the "jump the shark" fonzie, he was just this cool guy working in a garage who befriended the kids. he didn't even have his trademark leather jacket, he had a blue jacket. that first season before they went to a live audience, was really good and created a very 50's atmosphere and had stories that were in line with that. then it all turned into a goofy comedy show as it got more popular.

laverne and shirley was only watchable it's first season, then it too just went over the top. I can still watch hogans hero's and love it, but does anybody watch reruns of laverne and shirley or even happy days today? no not many and you could'nt pay me to watch mork and mindy today. Hogan was a real classic despite the bad german accents.

[–] FlushingCaps 11 years ago

fredgarv, I totally agree with you about Happy Days. It was a decent, not great series the first season and a half, before they went to a live audience.

Coinciding with that switch, came the switch from a show featuring high schoolers Richie, Potsie, and Ralph, which had one or two scenes with cool mechanic Fonzie, it became a show about Richie and the Fonz. The Fonz was good in small doses, and while Henry Winkler really is a spledid actor, his character was drawn so unrealistically that the show quickly became unfunny and uninteresting to me. And you, I see.

Another problem was the change in scene locations. Before the live audience, we had scenes outside the high school, outside Arnold's, inside Arnold's, and in three or more separate rooms in the Cunningham house plus several driveway scenes--all common before the live audience, along with setting used for one episode.

After, we got the Cunningham living room/kitchen, and inside Arnold's, plus a rare scene at another location. I hated it when six people could be standing in the living room, and one would want to talk to a second in private. So the other four would leave instead of the logical thing of having the two go outside or to Richie's room or wherever, leaving the other four where they were.

Even worse, sometimes the two would take three steps to the side of the living room and talk in volumes clearly loud enough to be heard across the room, and pretend they were having a private chat.

I tend to agree with you also about Laverne & Shirley, but because even the first season wasn't much, I only saw selected episodes. Mork was fairly funny its first season, then became abysmal.

If I was stranded on a desert island and somehow had a DVD player and TV and complete DVDs of two series, Happy Days and Hogan's Heroes, I would think after five years I would have gone through the Happy Days episodes once--skipping many parts of episodes, while the Hogan's would have seen me watch each episode two dozen or more times.

[–] fredgarv79 11 years ago

exactly, it was ruined by the live audience thing. that was what made so realistic in that first season, that they showed fonzies garage, the high school, outside in the parking lot of arnold's,the bedroom of richie where he got sick from his experiment of drinking too much, etc

do you remember the silliness of the parents always talking about "getting frisky"? when they went to the live audience? oh the audience would go wild. whenever fonzie walked in, the audience would cheer and go wild. sorry I wanted to see a good funny show about the 50's, not a celebrity reality show. they really dumbed it down. potsie and ralf turned into total idiots and morons instead of just normal high school kids

that 70's show, on the other hand, was great through the entire series. I look at that 70's show, as a recreation of happy days almost, just about the 70's instead of the 50's. even the last season of the 70's show, without eric, was still pretty good. but the last season or two of happy days was really stupid.

[–] ridgerunner72160-609-362419 8 years ago

I agree. I always wondered why Fonzie, Lavergne, Shirley and a few other minor characters on Happy Days sounded like they were from Brooklyn or Queens while the show was based in Milwaukee.

[–] darryl-tahirali 11 years ago

I love this show but the problem with it and this may have already been posted before here I"m sure is the simple fact that it takes place in germany, with germans and they have to all speak english. - fredgarv79

That to me is the bigger issue: Hogan's men masquerade as German soldiers and civilians, so the assumption is that they speak fluent German. That makes the issue of the quality of the accents beside the point.

As some of the other posters have remarked, this is a show made 45-50 years ago when they were cranking out episodes like sausages, there wasn't much thought of "legacy value" (the shows will last in perpetuity), audiences were much more willing to have that "willing suspension of disbelief," the overall expectation of any sitcom was a semblance of reality with a "wackiness ensues" outcome, and viewers didn't analyze the heck out of what they were watching the way they do now.

Granted, HH was a bit more realistic than most because of the heavy WWII environment. Still, it was a sitcom. The emphasis back then was on escapist entertainment (pardon the pun in the case of HH), even with drama. Film was considered to be more "realistic"--and even those kinds of films were just emerging (e.g., Bonnie and Clyde).

over the course of 6 years in hollywood, there must have been a lot of men in funny uniforms in front of mirrors practicing "heil hitler!" and doing a bad german accent as their wives walked in on them and wondered what the hell?

Wouldn't that be, "what the heil?" Seriously, though, don't forget that a lot of WWII movies were being made at the time of HH, so it wasn't just for HH that actors were trying their accents out. Only the top-of-the-line films (e.g., The Longest Day, The Great Escape) went to the effort to have Germans (or Japanese) speak in their language(s), and usually it was native speakers who got cast--which is why you see Curt Jergens, Otto-Karl Alberty, and Hardy Krueger, among others, in so many American or British films.

Another consideration is that television in the 1960s was not highly regarded, certainly not as it is now, particularly with the cable channels producing content that is better than much of the film industry. In the 1960s, film was king, and actors who were in television found it much harder to break into film; conversely, film actors who did television were considered to be "slumming it."

Yet another consideration that people don't always take into account: The Earth's population in the 1960s was about half of what it is today. This means that now you have twice as many people competing for positions, with the consequence that you have to be better than you used to have to be to land a position.

Broadly put, the talent pool now is much bigger; in sports, it's "talent dispersion" (a few great ones among a lot of average ones) versus "talent compression" (a lot of great ones among among very few average ones). (I'm a big baseball fan, and 30, 40, 50 years ago great-hitting shortstops, second basemen, and catchers were the exception, not the rule as they are today. That's talent compression and the progressive improvement of talent at work.) Same thing in acting--you have to be better now than you had to be, and it's harder to break in than it used to be.
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"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." - Noam Chomsky

[–] fredgarv79 11 years ago

all good points, your right they really cranked out the episodes back then. every show had like 24 per year, year after year.what is amazing to me that so many were so good. I remember reading about star trek, they had one week to put out an hour long show, rehearse, sets, effects,etc and yet look at the quality of the first two seasons. yes there were some bombs just like hogan's hero's had a lot of bombs but overall the quality shines through. that was just the weird thing about HH was the fact it was this flat out zany 60's comedy like jeannie, bewitched, get smart, etc and yet it was also trying to be somewhat faithful to at least some of the reality of the war and pay some tribute to movies like stalag 17, the great escape, etc. very difficult thing to do. make crazy zany comedy, yet also make some drama and show at least somewhat the seriousness of the war.

MASH is another example of this. at first it was all cooky comedy with a few serious bits thrown in about the horror's of war, then it went all serious and dramatic and political with some comedy thrown in. Had HH been made from 71-77 might they have done the same thing? would it have gone more serious? hard to say really. I preferred the early MASH over the later mash for the pure comedy without all the politically correct episodes they did later.

Your right the quality of the accents are a bit beside the point but still, you had some actors doing such bad accents it was laughable all on it's own and you had kinchloe going outside dressed in an SS uniform, now that's bad ass! a big black guy in an all black SS uniform with a MP40, that would surely scare the hell out of me, but I don't think he'd quite pass in germany 1943. I wonder if Ivan davis? was that his name? I wonder if he felt quite ridiculous in that outfit? they must have really razzed him on the set. which that character, even as a kid, never really thought of him as black, white, or anything, he was just one of them, we accepted it totally and paid no attention whether he was black or not, he was just kinchloe. pretty good for the mid 60's when there weren't a lot of black actors in major parts on tv.

All in all just a fun show, I enjoy it every night at 9pm on METV but I do notice the quality drops in that last season of 1970, it just doesn't have the energy of the early ones. like they were just sort of going through the motions a bit. the stories are not as good and some are outright boring, or just too silly like the one where hogan plans to get a convoy of trucks driving through the mountain pass by playing the drums really really loud to cause an avalanche to come falling down on the convoy.

I find it sad that the actors are nearly all gone now. I think robert clary is the only one left alive. it does make you feel old.

[–] darryl-tahirali 11 years ago

MASH is another example of this. at first it was all cooky comedy with a few serious bits thrown in about the horror's of war, then it went all serious and dramatic and political with some comedy thrown in. Had HH been made from 71-77 might they have done the same thing? would it have gone more serious? hard to say really. I preferred the early MASH over the later mash for the pure comedy without all the politically correct episodes they did later. - fredgarv79

The early M*A*S*H seasons, when Wayne Rogers and McLean Stevenson were still aboard, tended to hew more closely to the film version with its irreverent, almost anarchic satire. (If I had to name one favorite film, it would be M*A*S*H, which is a brilliant, biting satire--hilarious, pointed, and occasionally poignant.) Once Alan Alda began to dominate the series, it became sanctimonious in its final seasons. I say this as a political liberal who generally agreed with the messages, but for the purposes of a television comedy-drama, those messages were sugar-coated darts fired willy-nilly at the audience. Too heavy-handed.

But, it was a reflection of the 1970s, when "message" sitcoms such as the Norman Lear comedies (e.g., All in the Family) had supplanted the "wackiness ensues" sitcoms of the 1960s, a number of which you mentioned. HH is interesting because it somewhat split the difference--it was ultimately "wackiness ensues," but the historical background gave it some heft. I suspect (just a guess) that had the concept been tried in the 1970s, it would have been a dramatic series with perhaps some comic overtones but not a straight-out sitcom. Perhaps not, as M*A*S*H showed, but you never can tell.

you had kinchloe going outside dressed in an SS uniform, now that's bad ass! a big black guy in an all black SS uniform with a MP40, that would surely scare the hell out of me, but I don't think he'd quite pass in germany 1943.

Even as a kid, I thought that was ridiculous for Kinch to be in a German uniform. Nazi Germany was a fount of racial purity; there simply were no blacks around, and any other Germans who spotted him would have been immediately alerted to a breach. The Nazis' attitudes toward blacks had been on display during the 1936 Olympics when they were upset that Jesse Owens, the African-American track star, won four gold medals, beating the German "super race." But, for the purposes of the show, you had to get Kinch out of the radio room once in a while, and if I'm recalling correctly, I don't think he was seen outside in uniform in daylight, only night time.

I wonder if Ivan davis? was that his name? I wonder if he felt quite ridiculous in that outfit? they must have really razzed him on the set. which that character, even as a kid, never really thought of him as black, white, or anything, he was just one of them, we accepted it totally and paid no attention whether he was black or not, he was just kinchloe. pretty good for the mid 60's when there weren't a lot of black actors in major parts on tv.

HH was very forward-thinking in having Kinch as part of the team. US armed forces were still segregated until after the war. Kinch is not the only African-American on the show as a few can be seen in the background.

I don't know how Ivan Dixon was treated on set, either as being in a German uniform or in general. I guess he wanted to direct, which is why he left before the series ended.

I have seen a film Dixon directed, The Spook Who Sat by the Door, which is a political satire: It tells of a black man who becomes a CIA agent but he's really just a token hire; he quits the Agency and leads an uprising in Chicago. It's not a very good film on a technical level, and the story is heavy-handed, but it is fascinating nonetheless.

All in all just a fun show, I enjoy it every night at 9pm on METV but I do notice the quality drops in that last season of 1970,

I'll have to watch for that. After not having watched HH for years, essentially since I was a kid in the 1970s, I am starting from the first season through Netflix.

One thing that struck me about HH even as a kid is the constant reference/threat to being sent to the Russian front. In one sense, that again is historically accurate, and rather beneficial to mention because Germany's biggest fight was on the Eastern Front, and I don't think that the scope and impact of that theater is fully appreciated in the West. However, considering that the show was produced during the height of the Cold War, I have to wonder whether, in addition to the historical accuracy, it was also a then-contemporary veiled warning about the Soviet Union.

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We is dumb all over. And maybe even a little ugly on the side. - Frank Zappa

[–] Zebra 3 11 years ago

But, for the purposes of the show, you had to get Kinch out of the radio room once in a while, and if I'm recalling correctly, I don't think he was seen outside in uniform in daylight, only night time.

Kinch is seen in uniform in the daylight but masked in Carter Turns Traitor (#3.16), and in civilian clothes in the daylight in War Takes a Holiday (#3.21).

'Huuutch!' - Starsky

[–] darryl-tahirali 11 years ago

Kinch is seen in uniform in the daylight but masked in Carter Turns Traitor (#3.16), and in civilian clothes in the daylight in War Takes a Holiday (#3.21). - Zebra 3

Thanks for the correction.
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We is dumb all over. And maybe even a little ugly on the side. - Frank Zappa

[–] chuckbuckner 9 years ago

You have to use your imagination. IMAGINE their accents are German. =D
Problem solved, no charge.

[–] LuvvieHowell 9 years ago

I know I'm a little late the to the game on this thread, but I concur with you,fredgarv. The worst offender, to me, was Gavin McCleod...his "German" accent is 100% NOT German, but Russian. It's awful.

There was a lack of consistency about language on HH. For example, sometimes the gang DID speak German, little bits of it. (For ex. when LeBeau asks the spy planted in their barracks for a cigarette, but in German.)

Also, there are a few episodes where Carter is made fun of for his LACK of a German accent, but then he's picked to impersonate Hitler not once, but twice.

NewKirk and Carter do pretty decent German accents; Hogan's is barely there.

Just my 2 cents...i love this show and will always watch it.

[–] leader-7 9 years ago

To the OP: their accents are immaterial, truthfully. And anyway -- are you aware that Klink (Klemperer) was born in Germany? AND he was a Jew? All the major players (Banner, Askin (Burkhalter); and Robert Clary were Jews? Clary was even in a concentration camp... One of the most classic ironies is that all the major characters were Jewish men playing Nazis. Klemperer had made a deal early on with the producer (also a Jew) that he'd do the show provided none of his hijinks were successful. That he was a total idiot made it all the more funny. (Keep in mind, Mel Brooks has made a career out of making a fool of Hitler. Another brilliant Jew, is Mel. ;-)

Their accents? who cares. the show was hilarious, and managed to poke fun at what was historically another episode of man's inhumanity to man.

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[–] 9 years ago

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