At some point Friday is not behaving according to Draper's wishes. So Draper starts to address him "Listen, Retarded..." I rember that as a 2nd or 3rd grader at this time, "retard" was just about our FAVORITE insult. We really didn't understand it but it was great joy to greet the less-intelligent acts by our school mates with the epithet, "REtard!!!" emphasis on the first sylable. Suprising that no one associated with Paramount had greater sensitivity.
shareWhen this movie came out the expression "re-tard!", as you say, was very common and no one thought twice about it. Yeah, it was pretty juvenile and stupid, but people should calm down a little. Today everyone has to be "sensitive" to everyone else and that includes never uttering a word that some self-appointed arbiter somewhere might decide is "offensive". No, we shouldn't use really degrading terms (racist epithets, etc.) and be cautious about perfectly good words that could give offense in certain instances. But some people not only draw artificial lines you then can't "cross", they come up with asinine substitutions -- in this case, things like "special people", a meaningless piece-of-junk term that could apply to anyone, is condescending and robs such persons of their dignity...the verbal equivalent of patting them on the head and saying, "Oh, you poor little dears". We should learn to deal with people as equals, through the use of straightforward, accurate words that neither offend nor demean. Can you imagine Draper yelling at Friday, "Listen, special person..."? (Meanwhile...even as late as THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT MARY the word "retard" was used to get a laugh, because of its by-then political incorrectness.)
shareNo, I don't like "special" either. There is no use in using euphemisms because the euphemism is soon the insult. But I don't like the use of specific terms as insults either, especially for the mentally handicapped. Very few people when they see a clumsy person stumble will yell out, "Hey muscular dystrophy!" or "Enjoy your trip there, Parkinson boy?" Yet, the words "idiot" and "moron" were once medical terms for different handicaps. The immense popularity of the use of them as insults made them generic. That is because of the lack of sensitivity for those with severe mental deficiencies. Is it so HARD to use a less demeaning word? In the story "Flowers for Algernon" which the Movie "Charly" was based on, the suddenly intelligent Charlie Gordon wonders why those who would never think of taking advantage of a blind person or a crippled person, felt no compunctions about abusing someone who was, in plain words, not very intelligent. I ask you the same question.
shareWell, in the first place, I was plainly not advocating abusing anyone, mentally handicapped or otherwise: exactly the opposite. (Condescension is to me a form of abuse in its way even more pernicious than out-and-out, but at least straightforward, nastiness.) Secondly, I recall the line from "Flowers" you cite, and I don't agree at all that people don't use or abuse blind or crippled persons, verbally or otherwise -- quite the opposite, it happens all the time, and is as outrageous as someone abusing the mentally handicapped or anyone else who's afflicted with a medical problem. You're right about how words like "idiot" and "moron" have passed from specific medical terms into the vernacular, but while that may be regrettable it's the sort of thing that happens in any living language and their common usage probably can't be undone now. It works the other way, too, as with "gay", now universally used in place of words with more clinical and/or offensive connotations, which is fine, but which has squeezed out the original meaning in everyday use. We deal with the language as it evolves, for better and (sometimes) for worse. On the more serious issue of attacking, abusing, or demeaning people based on some characteristic or handicap (a word which is also deemed an insult in some quarters), obviously this is objectionable and even reprehensible, but the trick is to navigate the often faint line between avoiding blatantly offensive and degrading words while not slipping into phony, patronizing language either. Looked at that way, yes, it is sometimes hard for many people to use a less demeaning word -- when you realize that what constitutes "demeaning" can encompass words employed by the well-meaning as well as by the cruel and vicious.
I simply believe people should be treated fairly, openly, equally, not called names or demeaned in any manner, without hiding behind phrases that mask and thereby make somehow shameful the truth.
Anyway, are you looking forward to R.C. ON MARS being released on DVD later this year? I hope this is two things we can agree on.
Yes I want it on DVD. I wasn't speaking in absolute terms. I was just suggesting that it was far more common for a mentally handicapped person to be abused by strangers rather than the extremely rare ocasion where someone will trip a blind man. I am not big on trying to control language other than refrain from obvious abuses such as : "Hey com'ere retard!" I find it interesting how the pc crowd uses language. "Jingoistic is always followed by "American" and "mean spirited" always preceeds "Republican".
shareWell, I don't want to keep dragging this out since I don't think we're in particular diasgreement on much, but I don't believe that mistreatment or abuse of a mentally handicapped individual is usually, or essentially ever, physical in nature -- per your comment of someone tripping a blind person. Most such abuse is verbal, regardless of the handicap at issue. No one other than someone truly off the deep end would defend verbal or physical abuse of any kind, but I think where many people might make stupid, thoughtless or cruel comments, very, very few would ever deliberately harm any such person. (Some would, of course, but they're hardly typical.) So somehow equating the verbal abuse of, say, a blind or deaf person, with physical abuse of a mentally handicapped one, is off the mark: of course, a mentally handicapped person would be abused -- verbally -- much more often than a blind man would be abused -- physically. As terrible and scandalous as verbal abuse is, it is not the same as actually causing physical harm to someone. The goal is obviously to treat everyone with kindness and consideration and, as I said before, as equals. That is normally focused on language used. Physical attacks of any kind are an entirely different and truly evil matter, which neither of us has dealt with in our previous exchanges -- thank God. I should think that any form of physical abuse would be deemed inexcusable as well as criminal by anyone, not even a subject for debate.
I've never precisely heard "jingoistic" immediately followed by "American", although I've heard Americans called jingoistic. Well, face it: many Americans are -- look at all the people who say things like "Bomb 'em!", "Kill 'em!" and the like, and who think we're always right and free to do anything we want. I have heard "mean-spirited Republican", albeit rarely, but while it's a polemic it's no worse than "cut-and-run Democrat" and all the similar epithets Republicans hurl against Democrats. Let's face it, the tenor of political discourse in this country is spiraling downward faster and faster, and a lot of people share the blame -- the PC-crowd, Fox News, leftist bloggers, Rush Limbaugh, etc., etc., etc., left and right, both parties, ad nauseum. Few people really listen anymore, and fewer still think outside their own narrow perspective. It's destroying the ability of our political system to promote honest individuals in public service, people who whatever their beliefs listen to, respect, and work with similarly open people on the "other side". Pity.
Mars looks better every day. Anyway, peace.
Actually the line in the film is (when trying to teach Friday english) "This Is Retarded.".
sharedoes anyone else hate political correctness as much as I do?
shareYes. There are plenty of other WAY MORE offensive words in use out there CONSTANTLY but I don't whine about those. While we worry heavily over our wordage, some NOT SO POLITICALLY CORRECT country will invade and kick our PC butts while we sit around with lawyers discussing whether torturing people is a bad idea. HELLO????? Isn't WAR a bad idea to begin with??? re... er.. morons!
To human's end, the stronger will ALWAYS prey on the weaker, be that physically or mentally. Join planet earth, realize this truth and then learn to deal with it. Or get enjoy getting stomped on
The term retard as used in this flick is no worse than how people used to say "Far out" or "Nifty" or *beep* and *beep* etc like we hear 20 times in our movies today. At least he didn't call him a retard 20 times in the same movie.... is ANY of this getting through??
Actually the line in the film is (when trying to teach Friday english) "This Is Retarded.".
The phrase "mentally retarded" came into vogue in the 1950s as a kinder, gentler term for people whom the medical profession had traditionally labeled "feeble-minded." Doctors, nurses and other medical professionals used that term, as well as the noun form "retard." Now it's considered offensive. Why must we keep inventing new euphemisms for old ones? Cripples become the handicapped, then the disabled, then "physically challenged." Old people become "seniors." The deaf become "hearing-impaired." Bums and derelicts become "the homeless." Frankly, all this Politically Correct stuff is just . . . retarded!
share"Frankly, all this Politically Correct stuff is just . . . retarded!"
I am NOT in favor of euphemisms, but I find the using the term retarded as an insult, to be offensive. Why stigmatize a whole group of people who were born with a handicap, when you have a plethora of other terms to use? Why not utilize dullard, idiot, fool, stupid, numbskull, tool, moron, dumbass, or nitwit? The proper use of the word retarded does not mask or ameliorate the condition of lack of mental ability. Rather it describes it. Retard in Latin means "slow". This is a wholly accurate and non-prejudicial term. To use it as an insult, applied to people who HAVE at least average mental abilities, implies that someone is NOT using their intelligence. This is NOT the case with someone who is retarded. But, I guess this fine distinction doesn't matter to boneheads who refer to a deaf & dumb person as a "dummy", or call someone with Parkinson's Disease a "spaz" or call a one-legged war vet a "gimp."
1964 . . . . Americans were getting stuff done: civil rights & taking pioneering steps into space.
21st century . . . . Americans worry about which words will offend which aggrieved SORRGA SIGs.
SORRGA = sexual orientation, race, religion, gender, age
SIG = special interest group
What about sexual disorientation? I am STILL suffering intermittent bouts of vertigo six weeks after that orgy with the Chinese acrobat troupe.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distan..."
General John Sedgwick, battle of Spotsylvania.
People were too sophisticated when the movie was made to make a big deal out of Draper calling Friday "retarded". Such foolishness never would have occurred to them.
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