MovieChat Forums > Marnie (1964) Discussion > Why pick this film to bits?

Why pick this film to bits?


I loved every minute of Marnie. It's always been one of my favorite films, in fact after Marnie was released, many women named their baby girls "Marnie". I could stare at Tipi Hedren for hours, without a doubt one of the most beautiful actress of all times...What class, gorgeous golden hair so beautifully petite, she had class and beauty in one fabulous package. And... Sean Connery, what more is there to say? I can't think of any man in Hollywood more handsome that him. This film showcases Sean at his hey-day, so so handsome and that accent, just makes the screen sizzle. Her Ice-cold blonde and his big handsome hunkish presents makes this movie HOT... Now, being "Retro-Classic" I guess some of the people who could only point out Marnies short-comings eg; painted backdrop on the street= a ship that looked less than realistic, a sexual melodrama (whatever that is) borning? Hitchcock's screw up, a film that he made in his decline, a fake horse??? I just never saw any of this in Marnie. I loved the film back then as today. But then, I'm not a film critic, just a fan.

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> But then, I'm not a film critic, just a fan.

Well, a very respected critic, Robin Wood, boldly states that "If you don't love Marnie, you don't love Hitchcock. I would say more; if you don't love Marnie, you don't understand cinema."

I agree...

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[deleted]

> I respect Mr. Wood, but I'm not sure I agree. But if he is right and not loving Marnie means what he says it does, well I guess I don't understand cinema.

I don't know about yourself, but if you say you cannot feel sympathy to Mark because he raped Marnie, or to Marnie because she is a thief, or to the mother because she killed the sailor for reasons that you cannot understand, without understanding the sad self-hatred and hatred for sex that she had to generate within herself because she was a prostitute, or if you watch Vertigo and would say you cannot feel sorry for Judy because she was an accessory to a murder, then I can safely say you don't understand cinema, and above all I would say you have no understanding of human nature.

I am pretty sure that people with that kind of awfully limited mindset would never understand cinema, unless that cinema would help them getting liberated from these awfully inhumane mindset.

Though that is not what Robin Wood meant when he said "if you don't love Marnie, you don't understand cinema."

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[deleted]

“I would say myself--and this may sound provocative or even arrogant--but if you don’t like Marnie, you don’t really like Hitchcock. I would go further than that and say if you don’t love Marnie, you don’t really love cinema.”
I'd say it's ignorant more than the other two (and I like Marnie).


http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies

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[deleted]

Just out of curiosity, are you more likely to reply to posts on the message boards of particular films if the posts are more recent?

I don't actually pay any attention to the dates in this situation, but maybe a lot of people do.


http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies

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Some poor bugger on the Rear Window board attempted to make the same argument for that film and even though he was full of it (as any such claim is, involving any single film, pretty much by definition), at least Rear Window is an example of fine film-making craft and a lesson in how to effectively utilize space. I see absolutely nothing remarkable about Marnie & can´t even begin to imagine what kind of a convoluted train of thought it requires to put this particular film on the pedestal when we have, for instance, some other Hitchcock´s works from the same era as direct comparison. After all, next to the likes of Vertigo or even The Birds, Marnie really doesn´t look too good, now does it?



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[deleted]

Right--that's interesting. You post for different reasons than I do. I post where the audience I have in mind is other people who might be reading something--with probably a lot of them just never posting at all, but just reading comments, the message board, etc. about a film they just watched or they are thinking of watching. I do click on "reply" obviously, but just so that the context of my comment was clear for other persons' benefit. So that's why I don't pay any attention to the date something was posted. I think of it as commenting on someone else's comment for an anonymous audience, not hoping to interact with whoever I was responding to.


http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies

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[deleted]

I've got to say I agree far more with Jrnl's take on it than yours. In my experience, even when the discussion IS current, it`s rare for someone to actually respond to you, and even rarer to have an in-depth response (ie. discarding all of the "well I love x and you should too"'s, the "you're wrong and stupid"'s, all of the trolling, flame wars etc.)

So for me posting something boils down to just being another voice shouting my opinion out into the void. So a thread that's years old is not automatically off limits, as long as I have something meaningful (or witty) to add. And hopefully, someone down the road will read that and take something from it - whether they respond or not. That being said, I am always glad to receive a reply - if only because of how seldom it occurs.

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But my problem isn't any of those things.

I'm a little confused as to why the DAUGHTER hates sex because her mother was a prostitute. If the idea was supposed to be that Bruce Dern's character was raping her or that she had been regularly sexually assaulted then I'm afraid Hitchcock did a pretty poor job of portraying it. A single case of a man somewhat inappropriately touching a young girl is not going to make her hate men forever. (Heck, there are people who were raped regularly by members of their family who aren't turned off sex as adults.)

I'm also a little confused as to why select red items would cause her to go into shock. It's particularly odd how a red dress causes no problem at all, but a red and white pattern on a horse sends her running for the hills.

I also don't understand why I'm supposed to sympathise with Sean Connery's character in the end when he specially arranged to marry Marnie against her will. He blackmails her into the marriage and clearly feels that possessing her is worth the expense to him. These certainly aren't laudable actions, yet the way the film progresses doesn't seem to recognise the ethical issues his character raises.

I don't think it's to do with not understanding. I think it's to do with finding the sexism and misguided ideas on psychology in this movie wholly unappealing.

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Bruce Dern's character was actually being nice to the little girl, there was no sex involved in how he acted towards the young Marnie. As to Marnie, it is typical for small children to react in a negative way when they see or hear their mother having sex which with a prostitute-mom who is working her 'trade' at home, the child Marnie had that experience frequently. Then the mother stopped being in the sex business while Marnie was still a young girl, and after Marnie, not the mother, killed Bruce Dern's character. Marnie suffered a blackout about the events because they were too horrifying or confusing for her to remember them, and the mother never talked about what happened 'after the fact', because she thought it was better that Marnie NOT remember.
That was typical thinking back in the 50s/60s, actually.

As for this movie, it is one of my favorites, even though it is a tad too long (by about 30-40 minutes). Unrealistic 'painted backdrops'? Horse scenes with a 'fake horse'? So effing what? This movie was made in 1963-4, that was 'typical' for back then. I had friends who made a damn good living making those backdrops. I'm in my 80s, and I love this movie, far more than I loved any other Hitchcock movie. Sure 'Rear Window" is well acted but there's not a lot of 'motion' in that movie. It's more like a live stage drama, that's nice, but I like 'movement' in my movies, and I like my stage dramas ON the stage.

Sean Connery does have sex with Marnie against her will? or do people (particularly women on here) simply choose to believe that men are 'exactly' like women, and in point of fact, we are NOT. Marnie is drop dead gorgeous in this movie, Sean's character (and the actual man himself) is 'pulsating' with sexual energy. Did he rape her? or did she do what many women have done over the centuries, capitulate to his desire? That IS different.
You should remember, or if you are too young to remember, the 60s were the 'study my navel' decade, with people going into psychoanalysis and wondering if 'God is Dead', etc. etc. This movie should have been far more popular than it was, but then, in honesty, most people do not really like movies that make them THINK, they simply want to be entertained for a bit and then get back to their lives and problems. That's why Laverne and Shirley, I Love Lucy, Andy Griffiths Show, Danny Thomas Show, etc. etc. etc were so popular. Entertainment, no thinking required.
As for Tippi Hedren's statement that Hitchcock wanted to have sex with her, hmmm, hard to believe simply because there was no viagra back then, Hitchcock was quite fat and unfit, and he was 64 when The Birds was made and 65 when Marnie was made. A person, particularly an unfit/fat man, gets to a certain age, sex is not 'top of the list', sorry boys, tis true. But realistically, that's normal. The idea of viagra is something young people want, certainly I don't neither does my wife who is kissing the back of my neck and laughing softly. We've been married for 65 years now and sex is an all day event every day, but it's more to do with gentle looks we share and loving conversations than with 'humping madly' in bed. After all, one's body changes and the desire to mate mutes, but that doesn't diminish any love (wife nods yes). Face facts folks, Tippi was NOT a 'great actress' by ANYONE's standards, in the same way that Colin Ferrell or Brad Pitt or even Angela Jolie are NOT 'great actors/actress'... they are all 'photogenic' but no one goes to see them ACT. I don't know who are the talented actors/actresses today, but in the 60s, it would have been Richard Burton, etc. Anything Tippi ever had to say about Hitchcock being a sexual aggressor is 'suspect'. Ditto for her daughter, who obviously did not have a great upbringing (considering her escapades as a young teen).
So I love this movie and it entertains me. That's the important consideration for a movie, did it entertain you.

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As for Tippi Hedren's statement that Hitchcock wanted to have sex with her, hmmm, hard to believe simply because there was no viagra back then, Hitchcock was quite fat and unfit, and he was 64 when The Birds was made and 65 when Marnie was made.


Tippi Hedren IS Viagra!...

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That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, and I've heard some doozies. "If you don't share my tastes, you're critically inferior and constitutionally incapable of understanding the medium of cinema." Wow. I've come to expect ignorance from humanity, but that's truly one for the record books. I can't say I loved "Marnie", but I enjoyed it and thought it was a good film. The beauty of cinema, however, like any art form, is its ability to be subjectively interpreted in an infinite amount of ways, from an infinite number of perspectives, from a virtually infinite number of people. I don't discount whatever you and Mr. Wood saw in the film that made you love it so much, but the reality is that that perspective will not be shared by the whole planet (nor should it be -- if it were, cinema would lose all value and be essentially worthless, given that subjectivity is the cornerstone of any art form). The fact that they don't share your perspective doesn't make you right and the others wrong. Nor does it mean you're wrong and they're right. It simply means that different people have different opinions, and neither yours, nor mine, nor Mr. Wood's is intrinsically more valid than others. I could just as easily make the statement that anyone who loves "Marnie" doesn't understand cinema. But that would be equally absurd. I've watched tens of thousands of films, from the 1890s all the way through the present -- American, British, French, Italian, German, Japanese, Swedish, Chinese, Polish, Russian, Canadian, Australian, Filipino, Bengali, Finnish, Hungarian, Dutch, and more -- I believe I understand cinema as well as almost anyone. By my standards, "Marnie" is a good film, but not by any means a great film. But my standards aren't perfect, and neither are yours. The reality is that there is no "right" opinion as to how good this or any other movie is. All we have is our flawed opinions based on incomplete knowledge, and yet, in light of that, we try to respect the opinions of others, and the reality that their opinions, however nonsensical they may sometimes seem to us, are as valid as ours. For example, the idea that "Marnie" could be considered a great film given the best films of Bergman, Fellini, Godard, Pasolini, Tarkovsky, Buñuel, Ozu, Rohmer, Antonioni, Fassbinder, Visconti, Herzog, Bresson, and so many others, is completely nonsensical to me. But that doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, because my opinion is not inherently superior to yours or anyone else's. It's often difficult, but I make an effort to accept the idea that someone having a different opinion than me doesn't make them any less knowledgeable or sensible on the subject than I am. I try to accept that idea, because there's a word for those who accept that idea: "humble". And there's a word for those who refuse it: "arrogant". Are you really so eager to be the latter? Or am I naive for trying to appeal to a logic that you may or may not possess?

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[deleted]

'I don't agree with this critic, then. What arrogance.'
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Isn't that what you are, but too arrogant to know you are arrogant? You must be projecting. How silly.

Caldonia
IMDb member since December 2012
I select "ignore" when someone gets snippy with me on these boards. There are some silly people here who would rather make personal attacks than discuss a film! LOL!

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IY -- You wrote...

---Isn't that what you are, but too arrogant to know you are arrogant? You must be projecting. How silly.

Caldonia
IMDb member since December 2012
I select "ignore" when someone gets snippy with me on these boards. There are some silly people here who would rather make personal attacks than discuss a film! LOL!


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So you put someone on "ignore" when they get "snippy" with you and admonish those "who would rather make personal attacks than discuss a film". But then you turned around and make a "personal attack" on Caldonia by calling them "too arrogant" and "silly" and stating that they "must be projecting"?

It just feels like some double standards are being applied here in abndance.

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'It just feels like some double standards are being applied here in abndance.'
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I agree wholeheartedly. I agree so much, that I'd say those "double" standards even apply to personalities. You know, like members either:
1. Using 2 separate accounts as one member, or
2. One imdb member becoming a "different" personality and make that U-Turn when they seek revenge due to personal reasons against another member. Those U-turns are visible on the long wide IMDB highway.

Such schizo-antics on the ever-loving imdb board.

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No, just go back and read what I actually wrote and let it sink for a few minutes and with nobody but yourself to deal with, you can allow yourself to get to the place where you realize that everything I wrote was true and accurate. You do this sort of thing to other posters so much and your project all the time, you do not hold yourself accountable for you say or what you feel, and it seemed that the time had come that you got a taste of your own medicine. Don't feel too embarrassed. Even though you do seem to ask for it so much of the time. It's all part of the rites of passage upon entrance into the human race. It's called humility (amongst other things). You need to loosen up. I think you'd be less unhappy. And you have to start somewhere.

Now, the test for yourself is whether or not you are going to take these words in good faith and let them sink and have their due influence, or have you already begun to formulate your response to my post, with all defenses on point?

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I am laughing at you, as you have your fun. ~~"Now, maestro, the stalking begins" (in the usual pattern)

How do know which of your usernames conflicts with your alter-ego 'rascal'. It must be confusing to remember which piece of wordy pompous rambling you said to whom, unless you use a yellow-tablet and make notes for each day and log-on.

It's funny to watch you wiggle around and play your games. You're a sociopathic narcissistic who cannot tolerate rejection. That is why you torture your mother so much. Of course, your mother doesn't like you. Yet, you abuse your parents over your narcissism. Those poor people.

How interesting when rascal made his personal U-Turn, you did at the same time. You see, to be a con-man, you need to be a good one. And , I hate to burst your bubble, but Ellen Burstyn was embarrassed and creeped out by you, and your sexually-oriented (as usual) comment/ compliment.

What a fool you make of yourself, when you're basically a low-life and/or a very sick man who needs psychiatric care or hospitalization. They can explain why your hurt and harm others, but deflect the blame. It's called "projection", huh.

Now take your time before acting impulsively and give yourself time to absorb what has been expressed, so you can organize a comprehensive reply.. blah, blah.... spastically hit the keyboard to line up more random words to form a long chain of thoughts to ease your obsessive-compulsive dissociative disorder, as sweat hits your brow. What a fruit.

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I seriously doubt that you are laughing. First, everything I said was fairly serious (you were being told things about yourself that you seriously need to hear), and second you have no sense of humor. So I really can't picture you "LOL-ing!" I said what I said because you had it coming to you. Rascal is his own person, but hardly the only other one who would agree with what I see you are.

Alas, once again, as always, you dodged everything I said in my initial post; except the phrase "double standards", which you tripped over right away. I imagine your 55+ years have allowed you to become very adept at dodging things,
up to and including living life.

I do find it curious how you hang onto and obsess about things from the past, i.e., the Ellen Burstyn anecdote. She asked me why I thought she should co-star in a movie with Karen Black (two of my favorite actresses). So I contrasted her appeal ("warm, sexy and light") with Karen Black ("Warm, sexy and dark"). That was all. Only somebody with oddball ideas about sex would interpret my comment as "sexually-oriented". What I said was a compliment and she took it as such. It made her feel good about herself as it would anybody with healthy ego. Only somebody as sexually obsessed/uptight as you would find something sexual in the comment. (I can actually see you hanging back after the Q&A was over in hopes that the comment WAS sexually oriented. I wonder how long you would have crept about before going home?) Ho-hum. And the fact that I told you this way back when you were still "jimellis", 7 or 8 years ago, and you have still held onto this years later betrays your jealous obsession and your priorities.

Oh, and remember the time you got all spastic and wrote "Who else likes to think about large penises?" on the Soapbox and then deleted it 30 minutes later? Sheeesh... If you had any self-convictions at all,
you would get over yourself and grow some balls and claim your homosexuality
(and apparently your daydream fantasies regarding large penises)
because everybody already knows that you're gay and your refusal to come forth only makes you look ashamed. Nobody cares about any of this but you. Remember, gay people can get married now, which, no doubt, has probably got you all torn up and conflicted inside because it disproves your undying insistence that "things haven't changed that much in the past 50 years."

No, you only wish things hadn't changed any since then, because then you would have to learn to own your own emotions and would have to deal with the fact that your failures or what you perceive as your personal failures)
in life are for the most part your own doing. But that would be to much for you to deal with. And that is why you hide. Even from yourself. You have gotten by with very little spirit.

The words I am saying to you have real value, but are probably lost on you due to your extreme defensiveness which is in turn due to the (unfortunately typical) self-loathing of a gay man who is too scared to be who and what he really is.

Btw, you had a good ally in Rascal, but I imagine that you were, in the end, just too self-absorbed and negative and draining for anybody to put up with for that long a time. You have had all these opportunities in life (and despite all your protestations, I bet you were a little bit on the spoiled side in the past) and I imagine you've had more than your share of good luck; but because acting, the thing you wanted more than anything in the world, wasn't apparently meant to be in the cards, you have grown bitter and nasty. And when you act like this, the only person you are hurting is yourself.

I imagine most of you now want to say is only going to further expose your
personal agenda and so before submitting anything I would read my post a few times before you do this kind of thing again. You are the most transparently miserable person here at IMDB and that is not funny. It is sad. But as you are completely lacking in charity for your fellow man, it is not difficult to say what I have to say to you. You may be sensitive (mostly to your own felings, I suspect), but in no way have you ever come across as kind or giving or even friendly. So why bother being nice with someone as small-spirited and unforgiving as you? It works both ways and you are getting exactly what you are giving.

Now, as IY insists, LET'S TALK ABOUT MOVIES!!!

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....you're basically a low-life and/or a very sick man who needs psychiatric care or hospitalization. They can explain why your hurt and harm others, but deflect the blame. It's called "projection", huh.
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IY, can't you see what you have done to yourself? Hutch has had the courage to tell you some home truths and you still go into denial and deflect. This is not about him or me; but you and your own SELF-LOATHING. Everything you have just 'projected' in your post—yes 'projected'—is yours to own and ALL about you. Can't you see how transparent and phoney you have become. The contrariness and hypocrisy runs so deep and you are afraid to acknowledge it. What are you really fearing? Is it change, or is that you don't want to change? This is what you have quoted:

The reason I am harsh with all the abuse-victims is due to pain that most people have not felt.

How 'arrogant' and 'self-absorbed' are you, to make this claim about others pain, compared to what you then 'think' negates your own? Are you the only one that is suffering? It is NOT up to you, to make these universal claims, about others pain. You don't know how others feel or their experiences and you don't have a corner on the market on your own. You are acting selfish and spoiled, yet won't acknowledge it.

You did a U turn first, with your disrespect, rudeness and even bullying you 'projected' and have now deflected that back and are playing the blame game, as though it is the other guy at fault. How do you ever live with yourself?

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[deleted]

[deleted]

The part about not loving film if you don´t like Marnie is total bullsh-t, pure and simple. How can such a mediocre, artificial looking and feeling film that is a complete failure when it comes to portraying psychiatric issues, be indicative of anything is beyond me.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[deleted]

Thanks.

But it´s clumsy in its technical aspects as well - at least compared to Hitch´s better films. Bad editing, awfully fake looking green screens and back projections. And it´s overlong.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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The part about not loving film if you don´t like Marnie is total bullsh-t, pure and simple.
Yes, I almost resent Robin Wood for making that statement.

I can make the statement about any film...and I think I will.

"If you don't love Eraserhead [pretty much a random choice--I don't have any attachment to the Lynch film], you don't love cinema."

Doesn't make it true.

"Doesn't that make you misty? Chalk up another victory for the Human spirit!"

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No it doesn´t, but at least Eraserhead is an artistic success and a great film.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[deleted]

Well I´m very touched - although I have no idea why you think I "hate" it. I don´t feel strongly about mediocracy and the only thing bugging me is that someone has singled it out as a basis for big, flashy statements. The only level on which I can appreciate Wood´s words is if it was in reference to "issue" films in general - that you don´t love movies if you deny their inherent function as something that goes beyond the mere entertainment value. Either way, this is not a very good example of such a cinema, for reasons I´ve cited before. It´s just not very successful in dealing with the issues it announces, being too obvious, clumsy and in-your-face.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[deleted]

Yes, you can say anything you want, but if your credentials are not on a par with Mr. Wood's, they won't be given much validity.
Well, after I heard Mr. Wood make that statement about Marnie, I must say he went down a bit in my personal estimation. He's a critic I've long respected. Still, his credentials (and they are considerable) don't make me say "Well, he's been writing (and often perceptively) about film for forty-plus years, so he MUST be right."

I don't know that I can be said truly to love and appreciate cinema, but there certainly are many who do, who don't love Marnie.

"Doesn't that make you misty? Chalk up another victory for the Human spirit!"

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[deleted]

I guess I like Hitchcock but don't love cinema.

I like Marnie. I do not love it.

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Oh dear. I thought it was terrible. Sean Connery trying to persuade us that he has fallen in love with someone he doesn't know, and appears to have no character and no redeeming features, seemed to play quite convincingly the part of an idiot.
No suspense. And it was so easy to rob everybody.
And if Mama really loved her, why was she so nasty to her all the time?
Not a good film. And apparently not well-like when released in 1964. I can see why.

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MARNIE is one of my favorite Hitchcocks, and I understood that the attraction Mark feels for Marnie begins with simple good looks, but snowballs as he increasingly seeks to understand the nature of a woman who compulsively steals. Obviously, both characters have issues, and he didn't want the easily available Lil because he relished a challenge. And those who want to disparage Tippi Hedren because she was aloof and unlikable, that's what her character was. Yet there were times when Marnie softened her stance as her icy demeanor started to melt under the watchful eye of her increasingly nurturing and caring husband. I was never bored by its lengthy running time, and found Hitchcock's assessment of its being a "sex mystery" to be perfectly accurate, and with Hedren and Sean Connery, we have two beautiful stars who truly respected one another, and still do.

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"And if Mama really loved her, why was she so nasty to her all the time? "

You raise a question that also bothers me and I didn't find any other comments on that. Why indeed? Ok,after the sailor incident, she decides to change her life, shun men and focus on her daughter as she is the "only thing that she ever loved" (or something like that). But, instead, she seems to have placed upon her all the hatred she has for men and quite unjustly. During the first scene she has together with her daughter, Marnie accuses of never having loved her, in fact Mama doesn't want to touch her!! After the last scene's explanation, it all seems to go away, but then again, when Marnie places her head on her knee, Mama tells her to move it!!! Totally inappropriate thing to say, after the emotional strain Marnie's been through!! And unjustifiable too...

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I'm in total agreement. 'Tippi' Hedrin today has lines in her face, but is more beautiful than ever. In Working Girl, when Melanie Griffith attends her first business meeting which includes Harrison Ford, her hairstyle points up the strong resemblance between her and her mother, Ms. Hedrin.

Dale

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in fact after Marnie was released, many women named their baby girls "Marnie".
Now that seems fairly perverse to me, haha.


http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies

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[deleted]

Well, each to their own, but honestly...

- Yes, Tippi Hedren was indeed beautiful but Hitchcock made her look like a circus freak. He was hell bent on having most of his leading ladies sport a 1940's school teacher hairdo well into the sixties - I guess this this peculiar fetish gave him a boner. In fact, in the Truffaut interview Hitchcock said that his own interpretation of the scene in Vertigo when Scottie insists that Judy's hair shouldn't be down, was that Scottie was "getting an erection" when she put her hair up because it was like taking off her panties. Mmmmkay...
That 'do suited Hedren particularly poorly because her forehead is higher than Frankenstein's monster's and the back of her head is flat like a pancake, so she ended up looking like she'd been in an accident in Willy Wonka's roller machine. Her acting was better than in The Birds, but still wooden.

- Sean Connery looked the part, pity his character felt that rape was the best medicine for women with a paralyzing fear of touch.

- The twist was unusually predictable for a Hitchcock film... okay so she freaks out over the color red, lemme guess - blood, childhood, something with her mother? Yup. Wouldn't wanna be Marnie every 28 days or so.

- Back projection and painted backdrops were OK for 1964, back projection was used to a ludicrous degree in Connery's other 1964 movie Goldfinger. The difference is that they used it for risky, complex or "impossible" effect shots, while Hitchcock used it for anything and everything, even mundane walk-and-talk scenes, because he was too lazy to get his lardbutt out of the studio.

- Your 'cheery' appreciation for the film seems a bit... I dunno... this isn't Mary Poppins, it's about a woman who was traumatized from beating a pedophile's head to a bloody pulp in front of her prostitute mother.

Why the scrutiny you ask? Because it's Hitchcock, who was notorious for being meticulous, picky and paying attention to the smallest details, and one of his other films has recently knocked Citizen Kane from the #1 spot as the best movie of all time. His other films are bound to be held to that high standard. And next to Vertigo, Marnie is an epic fail.

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Quarantino,

I see you carrying your vendetta against Hitchcock female leads here as well. are you literally suggesting that Tippi Hedren was unattractive in this film???

Are you aware many consider her all these years later a style icon? In any event, she was beautiful.

The back projections were included for a specific purpose - to make us feel the way Marnie's psychologically damaged character sees the world around here. She does not have a authentic connection to her own persona and by extension to the world around here. You literally thought Hity?hcock was just being physically lazy? How silly.

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Vendetta? I'm underwhelmed by Novak and I think Hedren looked like a freak in most (not all) of the scenes in Marnie due to Hitch's bizarre thing for school teacher hairdos. Have I complained about anyone else? I think Grace Kelly was one of the most perfect women who ever lived. E.M. Saint was gorgeous. Et cetera.

No, the back projection was not some deep thing used to underscore Marnie's detachment from her environment. This is wishful thinking on the part of desperate apologists. It was actually suggested to Hitchcock in an interview and he responded "I think it's a very good idea" and laughed, meaning "I wish I'd thought of that, but I'm really not THAT clever".

And no, it wasn't because he was lazy. It was because he was old school and a control freak who wanted to do everything in the studio so he could control the light and the weather. He was not alone, plenty of 60's movies used tons of rear projection for budgetary and insurance reasons... but Marnie gets singled out because people expect more class from Hitch, it looked cheaper than his earlier films where he used it less frequently.

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I genuinely feel sorry for you that you let nitpicking concerns prevent you from enjoying both Vertigo and Marnie. You must be aware your view is not universally shared. You are entitled to it, but as a small example I frankly think you make far too much of a distinction between Hedren's look and that of the ones you for some reason prefer quite so much. (ftr I am also an admirer of Grace Kelly and Eva Marie Saint.)

And underwhelmed by Novak? I think it is one of the great film performances of all time. Oh well...

I personally don't place much stock in after the fact comments by directors or anyone else where they seem tied too much to explaining the presence of things in their films, especially in hearsay form as you provide. Sometimes they might be suffering under a need for false modesty. Other examples sometimes seem like too much excuse making. Other times, as in for me the famous case where Ingmar Bergman dissed Antonioni's muse Monica Vitti, I wonder if he was merely suffering some dyspepsia. Or felt some need to make one or more of the paramours he worked with feel relatively better (and i say that as a huge Bergman fan - I just thought Monica Vitti was great. Gee, maybe you hate her, too!)

What I do place stock in is that an otherwise effective director chose to make his film in a way that he at least at the time thought was most effective. To call a director engaged in such a process a control freak is frankly not helpful. Should he have been out of control? Of course not. So at what point does control reach the freakish stage?

One of my favorite directors is Stanley Kubrick. Some have complained that he was a control freak. Oh well...

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your post makes it seem like your entire opinion of the movie is based on how attractive you think the actors are. you're not convincing anyone with that shallow attitude.

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This is one of the more over-the-top observations ever made here:

I could stare at Tipi Hedren for hours, without a doubt one of the most beautiful actress of all times...What class, gorgeous golden hair so beautifully petite, she had class and beauty in one fabulous package.


It amazes me anyone would call Tippi "beautiful." She was above average in looks and actually unattractive by movie star standards. Never mind that she was horrifically bad as an actress: wooden, stiff and excruciating to watch.

If you want "gorgeous," look at young Ava Gardner, Elizabeth Taylor, Grace Kelly or Hedy Lamarr.

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I agree with you about her looks, but it's her incredibly poor acting chops, I think, that make this movie so awful. I watch it when it's on because I love Sean Connery, but it's painful to watch her try to act. I think it could have been much better with a good actor in the role. And I find it quite over-dramatic. Had it had some subtlety and better acting on her part, it could have been much better. I'm watching the scene when he drags Marie back to see her mother, and Louise Latham (her mother) is just awful, too. Way over the top. She sounds like a New Enland prig's idea of a southerner.

And if you want truly beautiful, don't forget Audrey Hepburn

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Audrey suffered from anorexia and was simply a skeleton. Sorry, this compromised her beauty for me. Look at her in My Fair Lady, she was 25 pounds too skinny (and I find someone like Kim Kardashian morbidly obese, I like skinny women).

In any case, Audrey's face was fraile and lovely, but she was not really beautiful in the same way that Taylor or Lamarr were. Audrey had a beautiful soul and was like a fawn:

http://hdwalli.com/audrey-hepburn-anorexia-background-1-hd-wallpaper.h tml

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'It amazes me anyone would call Tippi "beautiful." She was above average in looks and actually unattractive by movie star standards. Never mind that she was horrifically bad as an actress: wooden, stiff and excruciating to watch.'
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She was beautiful and not horrific to watch.

Bring on those black & white extreme adjectives that are so popular today with youngsters, and the masses. It's either "great" or "awful, "beautiful" or "homely". I know people who use these extreme words like you think it's being hip and dramatic, but you actually sound foolish, like a 6th grader.

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