Joan Crawford filmed scenes
Does anyone know whether the scenes filmed by Joan Crawford still exist? I have read that she filmed quite a bit of the film before becoming 'ill'. It would be interesting to see her.
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Thanks!
shareMow much time did Crawford film before she became "ill"?
shareShe filmed virtually ALL her scenes for the film, except the scenes with Bette Davis, so I'd say at least 30 minutes worth.
It should be noted that the character of "Miriam" was more prominent in the film when Joan was still attached.
'character of "Miriam" was more prominent in the film when Joan was still attached'
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You mean the role was shortened after Crawford departed?
She was a fool to sabotage herself(and cost everybody money and headaches)
Yes, the role of "Miriam" was shortened. There were several scenes of Miriam with Drew, Velma, and Harry Wills that was totally deleted out of the film.
This was all at the demands of 'producer' Bette Davis.
Also, there were a couple of more scenes of 'Jewel Mayhew' played by Mary Astor that were cut.
Yes, the role of "Miriam" was shortened. There were several scenes of Miriam with Drew, Velma, and Harry Wills that was totally deleted out of the film.
Once filming began, I believe additional scenes were added only at Crawford's insistence...so once she was out, they were like, "Okay, where's the original script?" share
Once filming began, I believe additional scenes were added only at Crawford's insistence...so once she was out, they were like, "Okay, where's the original script?"
Not true...the role of Miriam was more of a focal point of the film.
There were additional scenes of Mary Astor that were totally cut out of the film, but there are film stills of them.
Bette wanted more attention pointed towards her and her horribly-executed southern accent. share
Not true. Olivia de Havilland has said that during rehearsals Bette took a red pencil and slashed tons of her own dialogue because she didn't feel it was necessary.
shareNot true. Olivia de Havilland has said that during rehearsals Bette took a red pencil and slashed tons of her own dialogue because she didn't feel it was necessary.
SOURCE?
I have researched this film for a decade and never read that. However, I *have* read that Bette did that to the scenes for the character of "Miriam".
When Crawford left, several of the scenes of Miriam were cutout and not filmed with Olivia, and also several scenes of Olivia were filmed then not put into the finished product, however, film stills of those scenes exist.
Same with Mary Astor, Agnes Moorehead and Joseph Cotton.
Bette was a producer on the film, and had a field day trying to juice up her part and cut down everyone else's role. share
De Havilland was interviewed for a documentary about Davis about 15 or 20 years ago. That's where she said she was amazed to see Davis cutting so many of her own lines.
shareThe only Bette Davis documentary that de Havilland is credited for being in is "Bette Davis: A Basically Benevolent Volcano" which was in 1983, and I have that documentary and de Havilland doesn't say that.
shareWell she said it in some doc I saw her do. It was years ago, but I remember what she said stuck with me, because frankly, I was a bit surprised.
shareIf you remember the name of the documentary, please follow-up here on the title because I would love to watch it being that from all sources that I have read it was Bette cutting other player's part down.
shareOK, will do. I DO know that Bette never liked the film (see This n That), Mary Astor obviously thought it was trash that was beneath her (see her autobiography A Life On Film), and Olivia de Havilland has said in a print interview "It's certainly not something I'm proud to have on my resume;I did it as a favor to Bette". In Joseph Cotten's autobiography he stated that he thought it was a good film. I don't know what Agnes Moorehead thought of it, but given that Aldrich let her run wild and chew every piece of scenery that wasn't nailed down, I'm sure she had a ball! Agnes DID state that she was "mad to work with Bette Davis again", see Inside Oscar.
shareYes, that I can agree on :)
Most of the cast later said they didn't like the film. Olivia hinted that she regretted doing it.
As for Moorehead, she steals the show in my opinion, and I would say she is the best thing about it.
Her performance got her an Academy Award nomination, so I would think she might be the only principal cast member who was proud of the film - or at least her performance.
Bruce Dern did say that this was his favorite film that he's done, but attributed it to the fact that it was one of his first film roles.
Olivia didn't want to do another horror story after doing Lady In a Cage, that is the reason she didn't want to take on the role of Miriam, but so glad she did, she was perfect.Would have liked to see how Crawford would have played Miriam but Olivia was the perfect person for the role.Would have loved to see how Joan Crawford and Mary Astor would have played out that scene on the street, apparently it was filmed and it was fabulous but the way Mary Astor and Olivia interact in that scene just blows me away every time I watch it.
shareOh yes, Aggie's always been one of my favorites and she DID win the Golden Globe for this.
sharePeople say contradictory things, and it's not to be taken as gospel.
At one point later on, Davis said she'd thought CHARLOTTE had been "fantastic" and DeHavilland said CHARLOTTE had a "dark, glittery quality" she found fascinating.
It did, after all, set the record for Oscar nominations (7) for a film of the horror genre (later surpassed by THE EXORCIST).
But critics in the '60s were at their snootiest, and the actresses who'd participated the Grande Dame Guignol trend were sneered upon for doing so, even when they'd received prestigious awards.
So people say different things at different times, and are sometimes responding to pressure, or are just subjective in their opinion at a given moment in time, or all of the above.
Marilyn Monroe and Monty Clift both hated THE MISFITS and it's one of the best things they'd done.
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Non-sequiturs are delicious.
Marilyn Monroe and Monty Clift both hated THE MISFITS and it's one of the best things they'd done.
Wrong board to comment on this, but since it's come up here, I'm in complete agreement it's the best thing either of them did.
On topic: It would have been interesting to see Bette and Joan play against one another in Charlotte. DeHavilland did a great job, but I'm intrigued with the idea of seeing Joan play the part. share
Even though HUSH... HUSH, SWEET CHARLOTTE did, in my opinion, fare quite well with Olivia DeHavilland, one does wonder how much darker, creepier, it would have been had Joan not allowed herself to be driven off the set by Bette.
Olivia worked because she created a breezy contrast to Bette Davis. But would Joan's greater similarity to Bette be a strength or a weakness had Joan completed CHARLOTTE?
Unlike BABY JANE, in which Crawford is wheelchair bound and whose malevolence is not clear until the final denouement, the idea of Joan, in giant beehive and gargantuan neckwear, prowling silently around the antebellum manor at midnight (as Olivia did in the final version of CHARLOTTE) is just too intriguing.
And we get a whiff of what that might have been like in William Castle's I SAW WHAT YOU DID in which Joan is costumed accordingly, and photographed by shadowmaster Joseph Biroc (who also filmed CHARLOTTE):
http://goregirl.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/screenshot-from-2013-07-21 -2226022.png
http://joancrawfordbest.com/65isaw13oct7.jpg
I mean, Bette, Joan, Biroc and 1964 would beat Bette, Joan, Ernest Haller and 1962 any day of the week hands down for undiluted, ground-zero, back-of-the-closet macabre par excellence.
So it's a bit of a shame we didn't ever quite see it.
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The most profound of sin is tragedy unremembered.
[…] one does wonder how much darker, creepier, it would have been had Joan not allowed herself to be driven off the set by Bette.
Yes! It's intriguing. It's tantalizing that there's a chance somewhere out there exists the 30 or so minutes of footage of Joan playing the part.
Olivia worked because she created a breezy contrast to Bette Davis. But would Joan's greater similarity to Bette be a strength or a weakness had Joan completed CHARLOTTE?
Unlike BABY JANE, in which Crawford is wheelchair bound and whose malevolence is not clear until the final denouement, the idea of Joan, in giant beehive and gargantuan neckwear, prowling silently around the antebellum manor at midnight (as Olivia did in the final version of CHARLOTTE) is just too intriguing.
Good points. De Havilland was effective as Miriam because of her light contrast to Davis. I'd have to watch it again, keeping Joan in mind in the part, to see if I think she'd have worked or not. Until reading this thread, I never knew she was cast in it.
I've never seen I Saw What You Did, so thanks for posting the photos so I could better envision Joan as Miriam, in a giant beehive with huge necklace.
Is I Saw What You Did work seeing, outside of its camp value?
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Is I Saw What You Did work seeing, outside of its camp value?
Well, I SAW WHAT YOU DID is a William Castle B-movie, but it's a little more cozy and polished than, say, Castle's STRAIT-JACKET, in part due to Joe Biroc's camerawork.
One can only imagine how much better STRAIT-JACKET could have been, even if the clunky script and direction remained unfixed, had Biroc photographed it. It could have been lifted from the campy C-movie shlock classic it is, to a campy B-movie macabre masterpiece it never quite achieved.
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The most profound of sin is tragedy unremembered.
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