MovieChat Forums > Becket (1964) Discussion > The great grandson of William I the Conq...

The great grandson of William I the Conqueror?

posted 12 years ago by k-mann
7 replies | jump to latest

The first title card of this movie says (see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057877/quotes):

In the year 1066, William the Conqueror crossed from France with his Norman army and conquered the Saxons of Britain at the Battle of Hastings. Henry II, his great grandson, continued to rule over the oppressed Saxon peasants, backed by the swords of his Barons and by the power of his imported Norman clergy.

Why does it say that Henry II is the great grandson of William I the Conqueror? Did they just count the kings, and assume that the line of sucession was a straight father-to-son ordeal? William I was the father of William II, who succeeded him as king of England, but who did not marry nor have any children. He was succeeded by his brother, Henry I, who was succeeded by his son, Henry II, making Henry II the grandson (not the great grandson) of William I the Conqueror. This seems sloppy.

Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!

[–] geoh777 12 years ago

Good catch, I think. So, it seems a bit sloppy but sometimes people are not paying enough attention to what they are doing. Look at the auto accident rate.

[–] carplock2002 11 years ago

Henry II was the son of Henry I's daughter, Matilda, so the title card is right; he was William the Conqueror's great grandson.

[–] k-mann 11 years ago

Henry II was the son of Henry I's daughter, Matilda, so the title card is right; he was William the Conqueror's great grandson.

You are wrong, because Henry I didn’t succeed his father, he succeeded his brother (who did not marry nor have any children). William I the Conqueror was the father of William II, who succeeded him as king of England, but who did not marry nor have any children. He was succeeded by his brother, Henry I, who was succeeded by his son, Henry II, making Henry II the grandson (not the great grandson) of William I the Conqueror.

So, from the perspective of Henry II the line of succession went like this: William I - William II - Henry I - Henry II.
But the line of birth went like this (from the perspective of Henry II): William I -Henry I - Henry II.

Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!

[–] vnth 11 years ago

As the poster before you said, Henry II isn't Henry I's son. He's his grandson. His mother was Mathilde, Henry I's daughter, making William I's his great grandfather. The title card is entirely correct.

[–] Sook-Yongsheng 11 years ago

But the line of birth went like this (from the perspective of Henry II): William I -Henry I - Henry II.

Huh?

The line of birth went like this: William I ("the Conqueror") - Henry I - Empress Matilda - Henry II.

So yes -- Henry was the great-grandson of William the Conqueror.

[–] joshwor1 11 years ago

Henry II was NOT the son of Henry I.

He was the son of Geoffrey Plantagenet and Empress Matilda, who was the daughter of Henry I.

[–] magolding-94772 8 years ago

Yes, what other posters say is correct. Henry II was the great grandson of William the Conqueror (c. 1028-1087) who usurped the throne in 1066.

William the Conqueror's youngest son became King Henry I (c. 1068-1135) after the convenient accidental death of William II in 1100.

Henry married in 1100 Matilda (c. 1080-1118), the daughter of King Malcolm III of Scotland, which was a big deal since she was descended from the Anglo Saxon kings. Her mother Saint Margaret was the sister and heiress of the childless Edgar Atheling (c. 1051-c. 1126) the rightful heir of the Anglo Saxon kings.

Of course what Henry failed to mention in his propaganda was that Mathilda's brothers the successive kings of Scotland were the rightful heirs to the Anglo Saxon kings of England.

Henry and Matilda's two children were Empress Matilda (1102-1167) and William Adelin (1103-1120). Henry sailed from the port of Barfleur for England on December 25, 1120 and William and many other young nobles sailed later in the White Ship. With passengers and crew mostly drunk, the White Ship hit a rock just outside the port and sank with as many as 300 persons and just one survivor. Legend claims that Henry's nephew Stephen, Count of Blois, changed his travel plans at the last moment and thus survived.

Henry's daughter Matilda (granddaughter of William the Conqueror) married Emperor Henry V in 1114. He died without children in 1125 and she returned to England and married Geoffrey Plantagent, Count of Anjou (1113-1151) in 1128. Henry planned to make Empress Matilda and Geoffrey his heirs. Henry's nephew Stephen, Count of Blois, seized the throne when Henry died in 1135.

Empress Matilda, daughter of King Henry I, claimed the throne and invaded England in 1139, beginning the civil war called the Anarchy. It eventually turned into a stalemate. Empress Matilda's oldest son Henry FitzEmpress (born 1133) invaded England for the first time in 1147. Henry FitzEmpress invaded England again in 1153 and made a deal to recognize Stephen as king and inherit the throne when Stephen died. Stephen died in 1154 and his son William (1137-1159) did not claim the throne.

So Henry FitzEmpress (1133-1189) became King Henry II of England. He was born about 105 years after William the Conqueror, so it would be much more normal for him to be the great grandson of William the Conqueror instead of his grandson. And the short history given above shows that nobody could could have made a mistake and he definitely was the great grandson of William the Conqueror.