MovieChat Forums > Le mépris (1964) Discussion > the Criterion version's odd subtitles

the Criterion version's odd subtitles


I'm surprised I've seen no one else comment on this. Before the criterion edition came out I had to watch this on VHS. While the visual quality obviously wasn't as good, the subtitles were COMPLETELY different and really changed how the movie played and what its meaning was.

Compared to the version I saw, it SEEMS like Criterion did two things in it's translations...

1) They tried to simplify the dialogue as much as possible so there would be less words on screen and it could be easier to read.

2) They furthermore tried to limit the amount of subtitling on screen by never translating something repeated by the translator.

For instance, often times Prokosch (Palance) might say something in english like "Sometimes I sympathize with the gods. I know exactly, EXACTLY how they feel." and the translator will say in italian "He says he feels like a god." Now this sort of double translation often plays comedically in the version I saw, and makes a much stronger point about miscommunication and adaptation and all the great themes of the film (and it makes it a slightly funnier, more entertaining film). But in the Criterion version, you'll often never see that element because they don't translate it -- because they apparently figure that you already heard the gist of it when Prokosch said it.

While this simplification might be an acceptable method for a lot of simpler films, it is in no way acceptable for one of the greatest, most precise, and most overtly intellectual films ever made.

Now, I would think that the people at Criterion would try to give us something as close as possible to what Goddard wanted, so who knows - maybe their version is "right" and the version I've seen is "wrong". Maybe Godard didn't want the audience to get translations for everything, but my hunch is that their version is considerably off the mark in more ways than one, and it should be a matter of considerable embarrassment for them. I can only hope that one day a second version is released and the subtitles are updated and restored.

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I'm intrigued, as well as mildly alarmed, by your observations. I have viewed this film several times, and the possibility that its meaning was disrupted, or hindered, by an oversimplified subtitle translation makes me feel that I had a cheapened experience with the film. However, as an avid viewer of Criterion's releases, I know that they always attempt to work with the director whenever possible, and they are very much devoted to producing a “definitive” version of the films they release. An inaccurate or inadequate translation seems like a mistake that would not be made, however, it's not entirely impossible. When you have a film with dialogue in four different languages, loosing some linguistic nuances is very much a possibility. The language could have been simplified in favour of a more concise, easily readable subtitle presentation. Perhaps a simpled translation is sufficient for most people who are viewing the film, and Criterion decided that a more complex, direct translation would detract from the cinematic experience. Or maybe the translation was generally mangled, I don't know, but either way I am inclined to think that there may be flaws with the subtitles provided on Criterion's 2002 DVD.

The feature listing on the Criterion DVD boasts the usual “New and Improved English Subtitle Translation,” which suggests some tweaking has occurred for the release. Whether “improved” refers to a more concise laconical translation, or to a more accurate direct translation is not altogether obvious to me since I am not intimately familiar with the languages spoken. However, at certain points, I must say that I did get the distinct feeling that the subtitles were not displaying everything that was spoken, that spoken dialogue was either omitted, or only partially translated. But I just assume that someone more knowledgeable than I was responsible for generating the translation, and that trusting the translation provided was my only course of action.

If the VHS version of Contempt featured more words on the screen during dialogue exchanges, then there is a possibly that the translation may have been unnecessarily convoluted, and the Criterion translation preserved the original meaning, while condensing it slightly for purposes of increasing readability and cohesiveness? Also, it may not be directly relevant since the European languages used in the film are syntactically similar to English, but as an aside, sometimes a literal translation is not ideal, and can serve to complicate rather than elucidate linguistic communication.

Last March, when Criterion announced their first 13 blu-ray discs, Contempt occupied a spot on the list. Though I haven't heard any more details about a release, it's entirely possible that a rerelease is in works, possibly with a more accurate subtitle translation....or maybe it will be simplified even further.

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[deleted]

It does sound as though the Criterion subtitling is a real hack (or hatchet) job. Oversimplifying subtitles is a maddening practice. However, I am watching a French edition (from Les Films de Ma Vie), presumably as originally shown in French theaters -- though who knows? -- and it is unsubtitled for ALL languages. Knowing how few French people speak any foreign language well -- very few (surprise! they are just like us Americans!) -- apparently Godard's intention was that the audience would swim along and get whatever it could. So don't feel bad, the French aren't getting any better than we are.

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Yep, very frustrating. In some scenes they don't translate the french interpreter at all if Prokosch says it already in English. It was my first time watching this film and I didn't even pick up on the mistranslation until I re-watched with the commentary on and narrator pointing it out.

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Yes, they should have provided subtitles for the Prokosch character because often the audio on him is poor.

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